To think that hard hats do put off girls from pursuing engineering?

[LivingDeadGirlUK]

Having a discussion on facebook about this article.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50315019

I think the association of engineering with hard hats and dirty work is a big issue in attracting both men and women to the industry however another poster took exception to the stereotype of 'heels and dresses' being used to combat the stereotype of 'hard hats'. Person in question did not believe that women are put off of engineering because of the protective gear. However I disagree and think that it is a factor (alongside many others) as young women can be very sensitive to their image and 'fitting in' during that secondary school age range when we think about our careers and uni choices.

AIBU to say that for quite a proportion of teenage girls the thought of wearing a hard hat and boots and being outside/in a dirty environment all day would make them dismiss a career in engineering, given the association?

(think this is my first AIBU so please be gentle :) )

You're probably right I think. It's a sad reflection of the way we raise girls.

I didn’t do engineering because I’m not clever or dedicated enough, wasn’t supported enough and school never mentioned it ever as a career option for boys or for girls. Not because of the hard hat.

That would only be the case if they’re a field engineers. I much prefer to be on site kicking dirt than in the corporate office (not as an engineer).

If they want the suits and heels they can have that in corporate. that is not the reason why less girls are in engineering

???

Apart frm the fac that "Engineering" is a whole multitide of jobs, some offcie based, some clean site, some dirty site etc, what on Earth was that all about?

The key point was made down at the bottom One of the main barriers to young people pursuing a career in engineering is a deeply-rooted cultural perception of the profession as mechanical, too technical and boring, an outdated view that is being reinforced online. but surely trying to buck that by reinforcing gender sterotypes isn't the way to go! As in the opposite of a yeallow hard hat is not a pair of [insert yourt brand] heels!

They could have done a better job than finding a young attractive woman to help them say "Ooh! I do it in heels!"

I think the bigger issue is the absolute dire ‘careers advice’ given to kids in state schools and colleges.

I was pushed into things like hairdressing even though I was predicted all As 🙄.

Thankfully I’m stubborn.

Very true.

Also, most PPE is made to suit and fit men's shapes: another thing that needs to change.

A hell of a lot of engineering is 40 hours in front of a screen though : no hard hats needed at all.

We need to do with engineering what we've done with medicine : make girls realise that it is attainable, appealing and suitable as career choices.

Well they’re normally yellow aren’t they? So unflattering.

Obviously, that’s LITERALLY the only reason I’m not an engineer.

I think this could equally apply to teenage boys. Also hard hats/boots/ outdoors applicable to lots of careers.

Hmm, my comparable experience would be motorbiking. Women who want to ride are happy with protective clothing and helmet head hair, women who are only pillion because their boyfriend has a bike less so. So it might put off "girly" girls, but women who actually want to do it will anyway.

I didn't even know that engineering was an option as I went to an all girl's school. If you were bright you went to university for something like English and if you weren't academic, you did travel and tourism or health and social care.

Practice or outdoors jobs just weren't discussed.

Ridiculous, it is nothing to do with hard hats or PPE for that matter.

Engineering is still seen as an old boys club

I think anyone woman or man, put off a career that they'd otherwise love, by having to wear a protective hat SOME OF THE TIME must be ridiculously vain!

I don't know if that has an influence but I note (as a former process development chemist, who wore a lab coat every day and a hard hat maybe one week out of 6) that a lot of the jobs that require unflattering PPE such as chemistry, civil engineering and policing also often involve things like shifts, working away from home, and (at least in the pharma industry) frequent reorganisations and relocations which are not very compatible with family life.

If girls don't want to do a job because the clothing is unflattering, then they're not being raised right.

My DD wouldn't give a stuff. Sometimes she likes to wear makeup and fashion, sometimes she likes to get muddy and dirty. She helped my DH to build a wall in the garden, complete with toetectors, hard hat, and using a cement mixer.

Seriously, aren't we past the whole girls must look pretty and pleasing all the time thing?

I think this could equally apply to teenage boys. which is why the paragraph I highlighted made so much more sense to me - barriers to young people!

And PPE does come in women's fit these days. There are a lot of companies offering it but not a lot of the 'hairy handed' engineering companies finding it. DH sourced a lot for his female colleagues a few years ago. The miserable accountant wasn't happy but the IiP woman was delighted. And many of the men order from it, mainly to get work gloves that fit! It's bloody dangerous trying to do anything on site with Mickey Mouse's gloves on!

Funnily enough, my youngest daughter is dead keen to go into engineering. Then again, her preferred aesthetic is plaid shirt, with mom jeans, and timbies or docks. . .

I don't know tbh...

My DH is an engineer and I can confirm that the last time he wore a hard hat or worked on site was about five years ago! He goes to meetings all day and works on a computer, like most people. I used to work, not as an engineer, in an engineering company and I did find it a man's world. But that wasn't anything to do with wearing hard hats. It's big business and like most things which are big business, which makes a lot of money, men seem to be very much in charge. I think things are changing, but I don't think it was easy for the female technical staff in my previous office.

At least half of graduates coming in though, were female, young, beautiful, smart and extremely glamorous. I found that to be the stereotype. The men could he nerdy and unkempt but the women were super polished.

I don't know if the image of hard hats, overalls and dirty work is THAT off putting. I think when I was at school the reason I didn't go for something like engineering was because I had comparatively crap science teachers (all girls school). History and languages were brilliant at my school, so I went for that. But I did a 'dirty work' gap year. So did loads of girls from my school, so I don't know if it is that off putting for teenage girls..

I don't think wearing a hard hat would put a girl/woman off engineering - what a weird thing to say!
An engineering degree is hard compared to some of the courses my DD's friends do as it is very time intensive (similar to other STEM degrees). I think your home background can have some influence. DD has been bought up in a practical family and her dad has a garage full of tools that she can use and is very comfortable with. DD's focus is more on design but you still have to build things at university to learn how the design works etc.
DD's take on her course is as per the picture I am posting

What a ridiculous comment! Do women not want to become fire fighters etc because the uniform isn't flattering?! Insane.

I don’t think the kind of females who would excel in an engineering career are the kind of females who would be put off by something as superficial as hard hats and unflattering clothing.

My 14 year old is wild keen on some sort of engineering career although she's not sure in what direction yet. She's in her fourth year of secondary school, not once has she mentioned any issue with what she might wear for any career she would be thinking of.
She was encouraged to think of engineering and various other fields when she was starting to whittle down her GCSE choices. Engineering was mentioned at a careers meeting we went to before she made her final choices for GCSEs. Her school has been very proactive in talking about all fields of employment.

I suppose she would be a fairly average 14 year old - likes her tech, her clothes, music, make up, nails, tv.

No I don't think this is the reason at all. I am pretty shocked that anybody would think that this is a reason!? I think it is massively underestimating our young people.

@managedmis my old company had specially invested in PPE for woman's body shapes and I remember thinking it was nice and all but I really had no problem with the old stuff and if they wanted to make a commitment to improving things for women offshore then it needed more then a tailored boiler suit.

I am now office based and I don't wear high heels either, I much prefer a pair of brogues. What a nonsense article.

It doesn't seem to put them off horse-riding...

Oh FFS.
Yeah like riding hats and and horse shit put girls/women off horses all the time.

So true tanith!

But the article in the op isn't JUST talking about hats. It's the whole image of engineering, being a get your hands dirty, PPE up to the eyeballs kind of job, which doesn't sound very glamorous. When actually, the most successful female engineers I know are very glamorous. So I do see that maybe there is an image problem. But I think that's changing.