To think that hard hats do put off girls from pursuing engineering?

[LivingDeadGirlUK]

Having a discussion on facebook about this article.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50315019

I think the association of engineering with hard hats and dirty work is a big issue in attracting both men and women to the industry however another poster took exception to the stereotype of 'heels and dresses' being used to combat the stereotype of 'hard hats'. Person in question did not believe that women are put off of engineering because of the protective gear. However I disagree and think that it is a factor (alongside many others) as young women can be very sensitive to their image and 'fitting in' during that secondary school age range when we think about our careers and uni choices.

AIBU to say that for quite a proportion of teenage girls the thought of wearing a hard hat and boots and being outside/in a dirty environment all day would make them dismiss a career in engineering, given the association?

(think this is my first AIBU so please be gentle :) )

It's not the hard hats that are the problem at all, it's those rough yellow or orange hi-viz jackets that give off static.

They're tailored in such an unflattering style and are sooooo difficult to accessorise....

I’ve work a helmet-style riding hat almost all my life - if didn’t put me off because riding was what I really wanted to do and I wouldn’t have been allowed to ride without one.

When it comes to schools not showing engineering as a genuine career path for girls, girls not being encouraged to take STEM related subjects at GCSE onwards and even girls being discouraged from playing with “boys toys” from a very early age, I don’t think headwear really ranks as one the main factors stopping women going into engineering.

YABVVVU for thinking that everyone who is an engineer wears a hard hat. It's so ignorant! (and makes me unreasonably angry)

I'm an engineer. Can count on one hand the amount of time I've needed a hard hat. Yet I'm also not a "desk jockey" and spend most of my time in the lab, on the shop floor, at universities.

The bigger problem is that too many students don't understand what engineering can be and rule themselves out with bad GCSE / a level / college choices. More boys take science / maths so have the option to do engineering when they learn what it is. Girls are too far along the arts route. Or if they do take science, biological sciences seem to be more popular so they end up on that career path.

@MissLadyM A quick google puts female fire fighters at 6% though so maybe it is? Although I don't think its a fair comparison as there is a level of physical fitness required and level of peril that you luckily don't get wandering round a site with a clipboard!

@charlestonchaplin no but the issue I have with this comment is the use of 'excel' this idea that women have to be the best to do the same job as an average man. It's just a job, there are a lot of average male engineers, a lot of crap ones too, but its an industry that women have to excel in to join.

@Tanith @MoobaaMoobaa thats a very good point, but if horse yards (sorry if wrong terminology i'm not a horsey person) were more mixed sex or male dominated would that still be the case?

I'm a Marine Engineer.. I am female.. I wear a hard hard every day.

I don't know, I'd also associate hard hats with jobs like architects or archeologists. I'm not aware there's a lack of women in archeology because of the clothing.

My friend's DD dropped out on an engineering course - that was more because of the caveman lecture who walked in every day, said "hello lads" (she was the only female) and ignored her when she put her hand up to speak. I think we have more hurdles to jump to get young women to consider these roles and to get them through education still interested enough to pursue these careers.

If women were put off jobs by having to wear unflattering clothes or headwear there would be no women nurses or midwives, dental workers, cooks, kitchen staff, supermarket assistants, nursery staff, factory workers, agricultural labourers, firefighters, vets etc etc. There certainly wouldn’t be any women cabin crew on EasyJet. That seems like a very weak and very sexist argument to me.

@Rivergreen I don't think that at all, and haven't said that anywhere in any of my posts. My AIBU was to ask if it was a factor. I agree its not the main factor.

I'm an Engineer too, I wear my hard hat a few times a month. Take some deep breaths.

I'm a Marine Engineer.. I am female.. I wear a hard hard every day.

I meant... I wear a hard hat every day I'm on shift on my vessel.

In fact what do you think engineering is OP?

Civil engineering is the only discipline I can think of where ready access to a hard hat is required.

There's also Mechanical, electrical, aeronautical, geotechnical, materials, molecular, process, chemical (they might use hard hats sometimes), corrosion, sports, energy, turbo mechanical, agricultural, biomedical... and so on.

I'm sure all the potential female software engineers were worried about the hard hats

no but the issue I have with this comment is the use of 'excel' this idea that women have to be the best to do the same job as an average man. It's just a job, there are a lot of average male engineers, a lot of crap ones too, but its an industry that women have to excel in to join.

Yes, I thought exactly this^^. Why did that poster go straight for "well they wouldn't excel at it in that case anyway". Whereas men don't have to excel, they can just do it. Women have to be special super women to do the same job as a mediocre man. I'm sure that isn't at all what that poster meant btw, but it is definitely something I've noticed, especially in 'old boys club' industries.

As an A level maths teacher I am pretty sure none of my students would be put off by wearing a hat. I have noticed howevery that girls seem to opt more often to want to study straight maths or physics at uni, because they don't know what they want to do in the future, Whereas boys of the same calibre seem to see university as more as a means to an end, and more often choose engineering.

The 19 year old I know studying engineering is very glamorous, doesn’t seem to have put her off.

The sexism has given her pause though.

@SayOohLaLa terrible to hear that attitude still exists! I think with all things your exposure at school/collage has a huge impact. I had an amazing electronics teacher at school (3 of us took the module) and its what made me want to do engineering at uni.

I can only compare this with my own experience; I chose to go into horses as a career path.... that involves hard hats and an awful lot of shite 💩. Replace heels and dresses with leaky wellies, long hours in the cold, wet, dark etc etc
As a result I've met/ worked with/ grown up with 100's of women (and men, although more women!) who really couldn't give a flying duck about image. Doesn't mean we can't stick on a dress and a pair of heels when we want to but it wouldn't have stood in the way of going into our careers.
I wouldn't have thought anyone who wanted to go into a certain field badly enough would be put off by something so trivial, I've certainly never met anyone who's made a career decision based on their outfit ...

There's a lot more to this than hard hats. Obviously.

I'd be interested to know if other countries have a better gender balance in this profession. And what we could learn from them.

Is it fuck to do with hard hats...

Not Protected Title; Husband is a high performing, highly qualified german engineer... He was appalled when he first t
came to UK to do his PhD.. That in UK, repairmen / labourers... Routinely call themselves engineers! Roles that girls believe are :not for us.

Engineering culture is very very old boy network... (civil eng/mech eng) and often mysognistic

Primary and secondary socialisation re women's roles and aspirations.... Parents /schools/friends/media... What girls should be interested in... Either vocational... Child care/nursing... 'I love this so much I'd do it for nothing...'

Or academic
Teacher: You do realise if you want to do an engineering degree you'll have to do Maths..
(girls ovaries dry up when they do maths... )

Sorry op but it's a poor argument

Lots of women wear unflattering clothes / hats / boots in the workplace doing work they are good at and love doing , they accept the wearing of such apparel as part and parcel of the vocation

Sorry if this is harsh but possibly your opening statement says more about you and your own personal insecurities, upbringing and attitude than anything else

What a load of tosh. I'm a civil engineer, I work on site and wear a hard hat and PPE everyday. I love my job. The hat and boots are all part of it, and I really doubt that's what puts girls off joining the industry.

Its the stereotypical nonsense that is ingrained from an early age, girls are nurse, boys are builders. When I stated at 16 I wanted to be an engineer, I was told it wasn't a suitable job for girls by teachers, career advisers and family. Though now my mum is ridiculously proud of my achievements!

My company is mainly male, but there are a few females, a lot of both male and female engineers I have met don't work on site, they are designers and project managers however there does seem to be the perception that there is something scary about being out with the actual workers and that a woman wont be accepted. If anything I have found the opposite and if a member of the public accosts me on site I normally have a number of men appear behind me for support.

I find this article a bit sexist tbh. It feels like they're suggesting that girls dont like to get dirty, and not to worry their pretty little heads they can stay in the nice warm office!

A large number of teenage girls and young women (including me at that age) wear hard hats and spend a lot of time outdoors doing a physically demanding job in all weathers and mud galore. They have horses.

If girls don't want to do a job because the clothing is unflattering, then they're not being raised right.

Totally agree. I grew up on a farm and had 2 sisters and no brothers. We were expected to help out on the farm and weren't treated any differently because we were girls. We were used to being mucky and wearing old clothes. It would never have entered my head to not go in to a certain career because I wouldn't look pretty and my parents would have encouraged me what ever I decided to do.

@BumbleBeee69 lol I have found that if I forget to take mine off when I go round sainsburys people get out my way quicker!

@Rivergreen you are being weirdly aggressive about this, I'm well aware of the different types of engineering. The article in my OP is about how engineering is associated with hard hats, hence this discussion.

@smugmug do feel free to elaborate on that bizarre personal attack o_O

I think things are changing. My work allowed me to order special ppe that fits my short legs and tiny feet. I'm an environmentalist and love working on construction sites, it's fascinating.

Most engineers don't wear hard hats.

The engineers I know spend most of their time in front of a computer screen so you can wear a dress and heels if you wanted.

While I can believe that many tools and safety gear are probably designed for a man in mind (I'm thinking of examples like only one female astronaut could do a spacewalk because there's only one suit on board etc ) , I think that men aren't exactly thrilled about wearing a hard hat considering how many won't wear a bike helmet.