To think miscarriage advice is total toss

[Hey1256]

So when you have a miscarriage the first thing they 'assume' is it's nothing you've done wrong.

How do they know? They've not even asked if I have been drinking alcohol, taken drugs or anything.

There's so much bollocks around about not drinking more than two cups of coffee a day, no late or soft cheese, no hot baths, Saunas,

If this stuff really prevents miscarriage then why the hell when I have one has no one bothered to ask me if I have been sticking to these rules or warning me to do that if there's a next time I'm aware of how to prevent it.

In which case, if there 'nothing I could have done' probably should just drink as much coffee as I want next time. What's the point of a miserable pregnancy if these things actually don't contribute to miscarriage and there's 'nothing I could have done - just genetics'

It's all BS, I think doctors talk rubbish just to spare women's feelings. We either can prevent miscarriage or we can't so why bother have all this bullshit pregnancy rules.

DirtyWindow what I think is bad about the immediate ‘you did nothing wrong’ said to a woman who hasn’t even expressed any concern that she might have caused it is that it kinda introduces the idea that she MIGHT have caused it in some way, if that makes sense. If I’d had a MC and a nurse said to me straight away I hadn’t caused it and I wasn’t even thinking anything along those lines it would certainly get me wondering ‘but could I have caused it? Could I have done something to bring it on?’. If it’s truly the case that it was a random awful occurrence, why even put that idea into a newly grieving woman’s mind? If she has confided that she’s worried she did cause it then absolutely provide that reassurance. But a blanket statement to anyone and everyone is wrong and insensitive imo. I think I’d be inclined to be pretty angry and respond with ‘why would you even say that if it’s not something I did?’

Kinda like how some parents who are telling their children they’re divorcing follow it with an immediate ‘but it’s not your fault’, when it may not even have entered the child’s mind that it could be. If they weren’t already thinking they caused it somehow they certainly are now.

priceofprogress - tbh the main effect it had on me was that I lost faith in anything that they said (the loss of faith has been an ongoing process!).

Op, I am sorry for your loss. I recently suffered an early miscarriage (2 weeks ago) and although the physical recovery was easy, I'm struggling mentally. Some days are good and some days are bad, I am getting anxious and overwhelmed at work and im honestly surprised at how much of a mental impact it has had on me as I was so early on that I didn't need any procedures. But baby was very much wanted and planned for.

Your anger is understandable but it really wouldn't do much good to make women feel anymore guilty then they already do. The examples you give are for the health of the baby moreso than the risk of miscarriage. I hope you and your DH find a way through this.

I'm Most certainly my going to Get better expecting book thank you all for that suggestion.

Had a massive conversation with DH about it all he agrees in most part. Said he feels awkward by hugging people. I said I'm not 'people' I'm your wife he said I'm absolutely right and gave me a hug. He is a strange one with his emotions and really struggles to display affection. Always has been tbh

Also said was on his way to Tesco to get flowers when I demanded he isn't late to hospital. He didn't want to mention it because what's the point if he didn't actually get them but just proving point he does care and think.

Also said he is going through his own issues, work is incredibly stressful for him amongst other things so bottom line Before we TTC again we need to work out ways on how we can be supportive to each other. I think we both have work to do tbh as he gave some examples where I've not been supportive and I agree with them.

priceofprogress - tbh the main effect it had on me was that I lost faith in anything that they said (the loss of faith has been an ongoing process!).

Yes, ITA - I had 4 miscarriages and the stupid reassurances from doctors, that it was just one of those things, destroyed my faith in GPs forever - because in my case, there was a physical cause in me; and it took a consultant gynaecologist about 5 minutes to work out what it was, because he listened, where the previous 20 doctors I had seen didn't!

I am sorry OP for your loss. It is devastating; but it does get better.

@MontStMichel sorry for your losses too, you're an example of exactly what I'm talking about why they should not tell lies.

Instead of saying there's nothing that could have stopped they should tell us that it's unlikely nothing could stop it but a chance that after further investigation you could have a medical condition that CAN be fixed that will prevent miscarriage in the future - and point you in the direction of privately getting tests and explanation nhs test start after three miscarriages.

Sorry but what they say is lies and I feel mainly it is to protect women emotions which is an insult.

I appreciate people saying it's a sensitive topic but when you get diagnosed with cancer they tell you chance of survival and FACTS. If you're dying, they'll tell you they don't beats round any bushes.

Whereas with this they do, very patronising and I think the system needs to change.

Instead of saying there's nothing that could have stopped they should tell us that it's unlikely nothing could stop it but a chance that after further investigation you could have a medical condition that CAN be fixed that will prevent miscarriage in the future - and point you in the direction of privately getting tests and explanation nhs test start after three miscarriages.

I agree with this actually.

But, this is not the same as saying "it might be because you drank too much coffee, ate rare meat, had a glass of wine or smoked before you knew you were pregnant".

I think many people who disagreed with your op might agree with what you've just said. Blaming MC on a genetic disorders is not the same as blaming it on too much coffee. I appreciate, that in graphista's case, she found that the medical treatment she received PLUS she (and her DH?) giving up caffeine and obviously alcohol for a good while before TTC made a difference. But, for some people ONLY medical intervention or medication will make a significant difference. The caffeine and alcohol are just good things to give up if you're putting serious effort into TTC, which you clearly are if you are being investigated for recurrent MC.

My friend has just done three rounds of IVF and she had to give up alcohol and caffeine too. And I believe her partner also stopped drinking alcohol.

It is probably mainly a cost thing that they don't investigate every MC. Because miscarriage is sadly so common and almost always is a case of "nothing else you could've done", they probably feel as if they have to say it, because to say otherwise would result in people demanding to be tested for genetic disorders when they have had one MC. Horrible as it is, they will have decided that is too costly and tbf, an unnecessary procedure to put every women who suffers a single MC through.

But it goes back to what you and others have said on here op. Why do they disguise the truth instead if just explaining that to people? Are we so unreasonable that we wouldn't accept that it probably isn't worth testing right now, but it is a possibility that in the future they will test.

Although, even though I have never personally been to the GP with a MC, (I think I had a very early one, but it really was just like a late period with some other mild symptoms), I did actually know that after three miscarriages they will test you for certain disorders. So I don't think it's a secret that sometimes there is another issue which will eventually need to be investigated.

I bet in America they investigate sooner, but, (as a baby born prematurely in America myself, due to an overzealous doctor intervening when it wasn't necessary), I don't know how much of a good thing that is.

Also, when my mum died (as already mentioned^^), people did say, "there was nothing more anyone could've done". Now, that isn't 100% accurate actually, but it's just a thing people say when you suffer a loss. But there is always SOMETHING someone could've done to prevent a premature death like hers. More so than preventing the majority of MCs tbh.

Having said that, I do agree with some of what you say op.

OP, in those other situations you describe - eg serious or terminal illness - suspect similar issues arise. To be fair to health professionals these things can be a minefield and people will have different preferences about information and communications.

@Loopytiles I understand it's difficult for health professionals as you're right people prefer communications I'm so many different ways.

But my issue is that what they're telling me isn't factually correct. Some miscarriages are caused by things that can be prevented so they should NOT say it's nothing I could have done. This is not fact. At the very least their communication should be factual.

I agree with you OP. I think it’s better for clinicians not to be the ones to initiate the ‘what caused this?’ discussion unless the woman herself has asked. And if she asks, I think it’s important to give truthful information, that the vast majority of miscarriages aren’t due to anything the mother did or could have done differently. And then it’s up to her if she wants to hear more about what the minority of miscarriages that do relate to maternal behaviour are caused by (or can be caused by). I don’t think many women would be in the frame of mind to want to initiate that conversation right away but for those that are, it would be infantilising and patronising to just parrot the ‘there was nothing you could have done’ when the clinician doesn’t actually know the ins and outs of that patient’s pregnancy.

But yeah, I do think it isn’t something that needs to be mentioned first by medics with every miscarriage.

Tommy’s has some good information about the topic. I think most people who’ve experienced a miscarriage are able to do their own research online from reputable sites about what may or may not have contributed.

The research at the time didn’t mention the implications with fathers, but as it happens he never was a big caffeine person, doesn’t like hot drinks or cola or even fizzy generally, bit of a health nut actually and so mainly drinks water, fresh juice or squash. Like me he’s never smoked either (both had trouble with asthma as kids so be a pretty stupid thing to do). He did quit alcohol but at the time more as a “solidarity” thing in supporting me, but again not a big drinker really (the health nut/sports mad thing).

Ah that's really interesting Graphista, so if your DH never really drank it and you gave it up and also had whatever treatment the doctors gave you, something obviously worked for you.

Obviously, that doesn't mean that it makes any significant difference for most other women though. I know most mothers I know still drank coffee and have perfectly healthy children. So I still think it would be inaccurate for doctors to immediately blame every MC on drinking too much coffee... It would actually be insane to do so and I can't even begin to imagine the complaints they would get if they went down that road.

FWIW, I'm a bit more like your DH and never really drank coffee much and also, as a total neurotic (see my previous posts) re pregnancy, I also gave it up before TTC. DH hates coffee too, so only drinks tea and always has. I never gave up chocolate in either of my pregnancies though and still had a hot chocolate instead of tea or coffee. I remember (neurotic) checking the caffeine and counting against my daily allowance and hot chocolate was fine.

I definitely think more discussion needs to be had about the role of the father's health as well though, as I think too much emphasis is placed on the mother doing everything perfectly in pregnancy. That's how people end up being weirdos throughout their pregnancies, like I was! As well as all the bonkers things I've already mentioned, I was so concerned about consuming alcohol that when I accidentally swallowed a bit of mouthwash, I totally panicked. That is not normal.

A balance really needs to be struck where women are kept informed without people scaring or judging them if they get it slightly wrong.

I agree with you OP. I think it’s better for clinicians not to be the ones to initiate the ‘what caused this?’ discussion unless the woman herself has asked.

IMO, its naive to think that doctors could put in women's heads the idea, that they are responsible for a miscarriage.

After each of mine, I thought about everything I ate, drank and lifted to try and work out what had caused it - no doctor ever suggested at the time, or even in the follow up appointments, that they were caused by anything other than a non-viable embryo. They kept telling me if I kept trying, I would have a baby in the end - when in fact, I was physically incapable of carrying a baby to term!

Likewise, DDIL suffered a threatened miscarriage recently. In the two days she had to wait for the emergency scan, she blamed herself for the one drink she had on DS' birthday, when she suspected she was pregnant by a few days, but it was too early for a pregnancy test! Luckily, the scan showed everything appeared to be ok?

I've had 6 miscarriages in total, first 2 before 6 weeks,the first I hadn't even realised I was pregnant, it happened in the toilets at work. Then I had ds, then 18 months later I got pregnant again but lost it at 7 weeks, then 2 chemical pregnancies, my final one I got to 15 weeks but knew something didn't feel right, got a scan at 16 weeks & there was no heartbeat, I was 44, this had been my last chance, I had surgical management at the same time as a diagnostic laparoscopy which gave me a diagnosis of pelvic inflammatory disease which after another laparoscopy diagnosed endometriosis. I never got any investigations as to why I kept on miscarrying, just lots of shrugs & don't knows.

It's not a lie if nobody knows the truth.

Nat I'm so sorry for all you've been through that's horrific.

I'm not saying women should be told "caffeine defo causes mc"

But it is known to increase the risk but women still aren't even being told this.

They're also not being properly investigate and treated for Gynae issues even if there are clear symptoms

But it is known to increase the risk but women still aren't even being told this.

IME they absolutely ARE told this. Just not immediately after they've suffered a miscarriage, as surely most people would find that a little insensitive.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7322041/amp/Six-month-pregnant-woman-slams-stranger-Starbucks-telling-drink-coffee.html

It is such common knowledge that women get confronted in public for ordering normal coffee. I already said I gave it up before I started TTC. My friend who still drank wine and accidentally once smoked weed while pregnant, (she didn't know at that point), reduced to one cup of tea before TTC. Didn't stop smoking weed though, until she found out she was pregnant , but that's another thread entirely. I don't know where you are getting "women just aren't being told this". Maybe it's a regional thing.

Could you imagine a women has just had a miscarriage And the doctor asks a list of questions to see if it was her fault?
That would be the worse thing ever.