To think miscarriage advice is total toss

[Hey1256]

So when you have a miscarriage the first thing they 'assume' is it's nothing you've done wrong.

How do they know? They've not even asked if I have been drinking alcohol, taken drugs or anything.

There's so much bollocks around about not drinking more than two cups of coffee a day, no late or soft cheese, no hot baths, Saunas,

If this stuff really prevents miscarriage then why the hell when I have one has no one bothered to ask me if I have been sticking to these rules or warning me to do that if there's a next time I'm aware of how to prevent it.

In which case, if there 'nothing I could have done' probably should just drink as much coffee as I want next time. What's the point of a miserable pregnancy if these things actually don't contribute to miscarriage and there's 'nothing I could have done - just genetics'

It's all BS, I think doctors talk rubbish just to spare women's feelings. We either can prevent miscarriage or we can't so why bother have all this bullshit pregnancy rules.

I honestly believe as somewhere earlier suggested, the soft cheese stuff, partially cooked eggs, not doing spin class etc is rubbish and next pregnancy I will continue such activities because sounds to me like most of this stuff so genetic and out of our hands.

Obviously I will follow some guidelines
but I WILL not be stressing about the silly ones like I did this time and if I want more than 200mg caffeine a day then I'll have it.

As far as I know, the things you have mentioned e.g. runny eggs, soft cheese, saunas etc aren't risks to miscarriage, they are risks to general health of the baby.

I think the doctor would know if the baby was very sick because it had caught a bug based on bacteria in those 'risk' foods, or if it had just died for a natural reason.

It's shit.

I think we want to be able to punish ourselves (I've had two MCs). With the second one I continued running after I'd done the positive test, and tortured myself with the thought that I'd done some harm. But I think I just wanted to think that there was something I could have done or not done to have a different outcome. In reality, it was probably more my age that was against me.

But the doctors insouciant 'well, if it's going to happen it's going to happen' doesn't really help. You want to know how you can STOP it happening.

Sorry about your loss, Hey. It's shit.

I think you misunderstand about the guidelines, what they are for. Things like coffee and alcohol, soft cheese etc, they don’t cause miscarriage. And are not proven to. Listeria MAY cause miscarriage. Drinking 3 bottles of vodka MAY cause miscarriage. None of these things definitely cause miscarriage. People lean on guidelines as rules but they are not. And guidelines are ALWAYS set far far stricter than reality merits due to the lowest common denominator that they are actually trying to cover. If guidelines actually did equal life and death, they’d be regulations.

@Hey1256

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I went through 4. No words can describe the pain and anger at everything around you. It's so infuriating not to know why, what happened, how it can be prevented. The part of hot having the answers is the hardest. I'm so sorry.

Try to take care of yourself. There are supplements and practices that may help in the future, but I won't bang on about them here, it's not the time for it. Let yourself grieve for now. You'll know when you are ready to make plans and I'll be happy to share my experiences with you then.

Again, I'm so sorry. Go pamper yourself for a bit, you need it. hugs

I've had five miscarriages. One occurred at a later stage (baby had Trisomy; we had tests done to determine why I was losing so many babies). The others occurred at various stages over the first trimester. I was having IVF so knew about my pregnancies from conception, was following safe eating guidelines, and wasn't drinking alcohol or caffeine. And I still blamed myself.

The vast majority of miscarriages that happen in the first twelve weeks are doomed to happen from conception. There would have been absolutely nothing the mother could have done to prevent it. Many are chromosomal abnormalities, some are cases where the egg and sperm haven't knitted together properly at conception; some haven't fully implanted.

HCPs are not telling you comforting lies. There is truth in what they're saying. And I agree with a PP that the words 'it happened for a reason' amount to about the least helpful phrase a grieving mum can possibly hear.

I'm sorry you've suffered this pain. It's a horrible thing to process and I wish you strength and healing.

Thank you your kind responses it has actually helped me see things a little more rationally.

I'm annoyed and feel my time has been wasted, hormones all over the place to no avail.

I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I don't know if I have the energy to go through it all again. Even down to TTC (which should be fun but after a while sex every other becomes a chore) the whole thing has felt like a battle and I'm questioning is it worth it. Is having children so important.

I am most certainly having a break from it all then I will reassess.

They don't want you torturing yourself with 'was it me'. You may have drunk while pregnant before realising, eaten pate, fallen over...to ask if you did would also add to the torture and self loathing when those things just increase risk but not necessarily cause.

It's fucking shit and awful, I'm sorry for your loss. I did everything 'right' in terms of guidelines too and yet i had a mmc at my 12 week scan several years ago. No reason, nothing i could understand or blame, just total shit luck. What made me really rage was knowing someone smoking through all 4 pregnancies who never had an issue. I couldn't help raging that i took care of my baby with everything i had while she happily smoked through each citing it did no harm, lucky enough to never feel the pain or blame as i did.

Morning OP - I am so sorry for your loss and you have every right to feel how you do - I totally went through that thought cycle you are going through right now (and I still feel that way too!). How do they know my MCs werent down to something I done? Why cannot they not examine my lifestyle to ensure I have done everything right? Why is it my drug and drink addicted step-sister who is abusing during her pregnancy has managed to make it to term whereas my body kicked out a 28 week baby when I tried having the most healthy lifestyle?

When I met with my hospital to discuss how appalled we were on the lack of support post my son's death, he died of sepsis at 5 days old, I mentioned about how there was also a complete lack of aftercare post my MCs too.

Their response was that they have between 20 to 40 women go through their doors a day with a MC and they simply havent the capacity or resources to help every woman with their MC and so they can only do the bare minimum. They said we are so much more aware of MCs now because we all are more aware of testing early and our cycles etc and the majority of MCs are down to genetics and so I guess that is why they choose to pump out the line of "it was nothing you done wrong"

But this is the same line they gave me when my son died. How do they know it wasnt something I done that gave him that infection? They told me it was bleeding that most likely caused my waters to break... well when i first went in with that bleeding they said it was due to us having sex... so by my reasoning it was by having sex that lead to my son's death... so it was my fault (hence the reason i will be having no sex during this pregnancy).

It is bullshit. the whole thing. MC and baby loss is all so unknown and underfunded. It is unfair. And just because it is common it doesnt make it any easier to live with or accept.

I just wish they'd not say 'there's nothing you could have done' when there possibly is. I don't like lies and that is a lie.

I don't think it is a lie. Given that, in particular, you say you were following all the guidelines, the very strong likelihood is that your miscarried as a result of foetal problems that were there from the start, and there really is nothing you could have done about that.

I'm really sorry this has happened to you.
I've had 2 miscarriages and they were the darkest days of my life. For the first one, it kept going around in my head 'but I did EVERYTHING right!' It just felt so so unfair.
Friends and family all knew I was pregnant and that made it loads worse - some friends just completely ignored the fact I had lost the baby, which I now can see was because they didn't know what to say. Others said inane things like 'you can always try again', when I didn't want to try again - I wanted THAT baby.
It's a hideous time - try to look after yourself.

I'm also sorry for everyone who has mentioned their losses too, sending hugs ((( )))

You seem reslly angry, which is a totally normal part of greiving.

Early misscarriages are, for the large part, due to DNA/chromasonal issues making the feotus unviable anyway.

The advice about healthy living etc is to minimise the risk of birth defects.

I had 3 mcs and the consultant told me the only thing you could do to cause a mc would be to sustain a heavy blow to the stomach. He's a consultant and I'm happy to accept his extensive training puts him in a better position to know this than any knowledge i might have. I can't see how it would be in his interest to lie as if there was a way of me making mc less likely happen he'd want to tell me so i could act accordingly.
theres some people that do far from it take drugs drink lots and their babies end up being fine
They may look fine but could end up with lower iq or more behaviour problems than they would have done otherwise

OP that's just what I did! I had a chemical pregnancy first and always wondered whether intense work stress contributed to that. During my second pregnancy I was terrified of doing anything wrong...cut down on work, stopped drinking coffee, stopped using nail polish, religiously took all vitamins and even turned off wifi during the night so I won't be exposed to radiation. Unfortunately that one ended in a missed miscarriage at 10 weeks. The vast majority of MCs in the first trimester are caused by serious genetic defects and it gave me some consolation to think that even if the baby pulled through, he/she would most likely have been extremely ill.

In my third pregnancy I just thought sod it all, people have been having babies since the dawn of time and if things are supposed to work out then they will. Of course I wasn't self-destructive but I allowed myself more balanced decisions such as taking pregnancy-safe painkillers if I needed them, drinking the occasional coffee and skipping a dose of vitamins if I felt really sick. DD (10 months) was completely fine and sleeping upstairs now.

Most miscarriages are due to the embryo not being viable. It's very upsetting so the last thing drs should be doing is asking if they ate pate or blue cheese. If someone has recurrent miscarriages then a lifestyle questionnaire is part of the investigations. I have a friend who has a research interest in why miscarriages occur and she always says there's nothing you can really do to prevent most of them

I know where you're coming from. The vast majority of miscarriages are caused by stuff you have no control over but you're given this false impression by the baby books and the NHS advice and so on that there is some massive amount you can do to control the risks by not eating the wrong sort of cheese and all this shite.

Tell you what made me the angriest, was how you need to have three miscarriages before they will investigate, and you keep getting told "it's a one off, it's bad luck, these things happen, it's nature's way, it's partly these early response pregnancy tests, a generation ago you might never have known you were pregnant" - and then if, like me, you turn out to have a chromosomal abnormality that's causing the miscarriages, I would have liked it if just one single person had said "all that stuff about just bad luck? Turns out no, there's a very good reason why you keep miscarrying. Sorry we made you get pregnant three times just to justify the 500 quid or so for karyotyping"

Sorry for your loss op. This is definitely your grief talking. I feel you. I just had a very traumatic miscarriage at 11 weeks on sunday where i hemorridged so much i could have died. Back from hospital last night im still sore bleeding clots and tired. I followed the pregnancy rules. My only problem was i am slightly underweight. If a dr even tried to suggest it was my fault i would have punched them.

I think that more than anything, they have to be delicate. The last thing somebody hurting needs is a mini-interrogation that could potentially make them feel even worse.

Even though I completely understand what you mean, I think they just need to be so careful not to plant that seed of 'was it me?'.

Massive hugs OP. xx

Sorry for your loss OP. A break is a good idea. I had recurrent miscarriage and it is shit, and i agree the emotional and physical investment is hard to bear when it comes to nothing. But i agree those guidelines have very little to do with miscarriage risk. My cousin works in paediatric hearing loss and sees several cases where listeria has caused deafness so although it is rare there is a point to avoiding soft cheese, raw egg etc.

Although most miscarriages are due to genetic issues, recurrent miscarriage can be caused by hormonal or auto immune conditions. I have PCOS and if i were to ttc again (unlikely - i now have two healthy dds) i would try to get myself in good shape and follow a low blood sugar diet first because i know that's best for my PCOS and would give me the best chance of a healthy pregnancy. Even then though once the pregnancy has begun there's little if anything you can do to affect the outcome- PCOS affects the egg and implantation really. There is a book called "it starts with the egg" which is interesting reading, and one called "miscarriage: what every woman needs to know". If this is your first loss though then it is very likely a genetic issue and your body doing what it is designed to do, with the chances of all being well next time being very high. There's a graph in that miscarriage book that shows your chance of successful pregnancy next time: after one or two mc your chances are pretty much identical to the chance you had before you had a mc.

it's a tough time be kind to yourself. And to everyone else going through this right now, some unmumsnetty hugs and tea.
OP. I know it's hard, have you got a friend or family member you can reach out to today to have a listen about the bitter unfairness of miscarriage x

You can smoke 20 a day, take crack and drink ten pints of lager every day but not miscarry. Those guidelines are generally to ensure you give the baby the best start in life, not really anything to do with miscarriage. Smoking can increase the chances of stillbirth but many women smoke and again, have a live baby. It isn’t fair but the vast majority of miscarriages are genuinely not the woman’s fault. It’s a chromosomal abnormality most of the time.

I quit coffee during the two pregnancies I went on to miscarry so just carried on drinking it with the pregnancy following, I didn’t see why I should suffer when I’d just go on to miscarry anyway. I had a healthy baby that time so I don’t think a bit of coffee does any harm.

Sorry for your loss OP, I've been there, and it left me heartbroken, angry and devastated all at once. The NHS website does state some factors that may reduce the risk, but acknowledges that for the majority of the time, there are no reasons within our control. I had no medical contact following my MC, other than a call with a doctor as I was still clotting for weeks after; so not sure if it would have been appropriate at all for them to say on the phone that it could have been something I had done. The midwife at my booking appointment did though go through some risk factors if that's what you mean? It seems a bit silly to flaunt some of the advice believing it wouldn't make a difference though; would you never wear a seatbelt because some people get seriously injured, even though the vast majority find it saves them? Hoping you get the support you need, it is a challenging time

I am very sorry for your loss. However I think you're being very rigid in your thinking, when we know that too much caffeine INCREASES the risk of miscarriage, that's not to say that everyone who drinks more than 200mg of caffeine will have one, but that reducing caffeine consumptions reduces the risk. Unfortunately someone may still experience a miscarriage even if they abstain from caffeine, as a lack of caffeine isn't protective, if that makes any sense?

I do understand your anger, but I also imagine you'd feel differently (and still possibly very angry) if you'd been given a leaflet about causes of miscarriage - because if you'd taken all the advice and still had a loss, and then a leaflet is given to you which implies you're to blame in some way, then how is that helpful?

It is desperately, desperately unfair that women who don't stop smoking, drinking or taking drugs can get to carry a baby to term when women who take every precaution possible don't. And that's a horrible feeling to sit with, that it's unfair. And it is. I'm so sorry you're feeling like this.

Forgot to add, my SIL found The Miscarriage Association really supportive, if that's something you think you'd find useful.