To ask if separation can sometimes be better for children?

[Noneedtoberudedear]

Because I really think DH and I are reaching the end of the road...

We have toddler twins and our relationship has gone steadily downhill since they were born. I don’t want them brought up by two fighting parents and we’ve both agreed that separating is probably for the best.

Has anyone separated and found it improved things for them and their children? I feel so scared right now. I honestly don’t know what the future will hold for us all and how I will cope

@JacquesHammer I know it’s problematic and I’ll admit I probably need to change my attitude. It’s just difficult because I do a lot more for them than DH so I tend to think of them as ‘my’ children. I’m hoping counselling will be able to help me with that.

If that's going to be your attitude about Christmas and birthdays then you will create problems from the get go and that's where the issues start!

When you split the main thing you need to realise is that it's not about you and your wants. It is about being fair to your children. Myself and my ex alternate important days.

I know it’s problematic and I’ll admit I probably need to change my attitude. It’s just difficult because I do a lot more for them than DH so I tend to think of them as ‘my’ children. I’m hoping counselling will be able to help me with that

I think you need to, otherwise I can’t see it being an amicable split.

We split Christmas so this year she’ll be with her dad from 24th to 27th then with me until 3rd January.

Only if abuse is involved - if not then separation is very detrimental to child/ren and will have a lasting effect

My children were 7, 2 and 1 when I separated from their dad. I do 99% of the parenting. It was hard initially but now it's wonderful. I feel so much closer to my children as I can always put them and their needs first. We are very open and my teenager talks to me about their feelings and problems. Our home is our safe place not a battleground. It's the best decision I ever made.

if not then separation is very detrimental to child/ren and will have a lasting effect

Please don’t state opinion as fact. What you mean is separation CAN be detrimental if handled badly and COULD have a lasting effect.

Yeah - same thing

Yeah - same thing

Well not really, you see words change the meaning don’t they?

if not then separation is very detrimental to child/ren and will have a lasting effect

Actually I don't think separation itself is detrimental. I think it is when other adults are introduced to the household and the children are not put first.

@JenetteFranky bullshit, as a child of divorced parents I can say I didn't care in the slightest.

OP, I was 100% on your side until this:
He’d be the one not seeing them Xmas and birthdays. I waited nearly 40 years for these babies and spent my inheritance to get them!
This is a large red flag about how you would act as a seperate parent and it’s not enough to say you’ll ‘probably’ have to change your attitude - you MUST change it in order to co parent effectively. It certainly won’t improve your children’s experience to be caught between two parents, one of whom takes this attitude from the get go.
I’m not excusing the things your husband has said - he seems pretty hurtful himself. But your statement above does show there’s probably an element of truth in what he says about feeling like he has no say with the children.

Your attitude will make splitting very difficult to do amicably. He is their parent. It kind of reads like you wanted the children and haven't let him be very involved and are now moaning that he isn't involved.

I suggest counselling before you make any rash decisions. You need to work out your feelings towards him and your children.

Splitting with your attitude won't make things better.

My daughter was 9 months old when my ex and I split up. 24 years later she is the happiest, well adjusted young woman you could ever imagine. She lived with me and saw her dad very often. She is close to us both and we worked really well together as parents.

I was only happier after the divorce when I was allowed to just have one home and just visit my dad. I hated having to split my time, I just wanted my own home and one bed. I was 3 when they split.

He’d be the one not seeing them Xmas and birthdays. I waited nearly 40 years for these babies and spent my inheritance to get them!

OP I have to say that I totally understand where you're coming from with this; it was something I had to come to terms with quite quickly once we split. It's difficult to explain, but I always felt that since I was the one doing 90% of the care I was 90% more vital.

We share Christmas and Birthdays. Always have, probably always will. It was never in DS1's interests to have us war over who owned him, and it was never going to make an already difficult breakup better. I had some therapy and support and it helped hugely; giving Ex the same respect and rights I gave myself, respecting his role in DS1's life and facilitating that vital bond wasn't easy. I still have the occasional pang; DS1 buys a Mothers Day card for Ex's DW each year when he buys mine. She's a Mum to him when I'm not. If I dwell on the sad side of that I could cry. I try instead to focus on how bloody lovely that he has someone who could choose not to play a part in his life but who actively built a loving relationship with him when he was small and tucks him in and kisses him goodnight when I can't. And letting Ex and his family build that bond with DS1 hasn't devalued my role in his life, or my importance.

I do know that if DH and I split up now that DS1 is 14, I'd never consider introducing anyone else. It is a miracle that DS1 and DH love and cherish one another. It is even more of a miracle that Ex, DH, Ex's DW and I can all parent respectfully and kindly. It's fluke. But flukes like that don't happen more than once in a lifetime and if DH and I ever divorced I'd quite happily live solo til the DC were older because I've watched friends and family introduce new partners to older DC and it is hard, always. Not impossible, but so hard.

JenetteFranky I strongly believe, having gone through this, that its not in the best interests of a child to remain with two parents who no longer love and respect one another.

Yes there are definitely problems for children with separation: even if handled sensitively its always painful and difficult for children and I don't want to minimise this.

My situation did involve abuse and I had to leave for my own self protection and that of my child. Had there not been abuse, though, had we just been miserably incompatible, I still think it would have been the right thing to do.

A child learns about the world from its parents. If parents are showing, day in, day out, that they are tolerating one another through clenched teeth and enduring one another's presence when it clearly makes them unhappy, or worse, fighting with one another because they feel trapped, the child learns that this is what marriage or settled relationships are like. It doesn't incline a child towards building happy relationships for itself in the future.

I have spoken to so many people who have been through similar. All of us are painfully aware of the impact that separation has had on our children. But I don't know a single parent who believes that sticking together trapped ever sets the best example to a child. Its not the fact of separation itself that damages children. Its when parents use children to fight one another and demonstrate toxic behaviour. This does happen too often and it is regrettable. But this doesn't in itself mean that people should be obliged to be locked together in perpetuity when they are making one another miserable.

@ChileConCarne Can I ask your reasons for wishing they’d stayed together? (If you don’t mind saying obviously)
Reflecting on this, I think my main issue isn’t that my parents divorced. It’s that my mum refused to move on and meet anyone new, so is a permanent burden on me (not that everyone needs or wants a partner of course).

@thepeopleversuswork my own parents are fairly unhappily married and it has definitely affected my relationships. I truly don’t want to do that to my children and neither does DH to be fair.

I have no intention of using my children as a weapon. I appreciate that in reality we would have to be amicable regarding Christmas etc. My statement comes more from the fact that DH has no family where we live, doesn’t cook etc. so Xmas with him wouldn’t be much fun for our children. He also never takes them anywhere alone so I struggle to envisage him having them in a separate place by himself. It’s difficult to picture when it never happens.

We’ve tried to discuss things again tonight and he just gets so personal and mean in his attacks. Nothing I say or do is really what I mean, there’s always another reason people don’t like him because of the way I talk about him to them etc. etc. It’s just exhausting.

@ChileConCarne that is interesting given what most people are saying about new partners often being a sticking point. I never considered it from the other perspective. That sounds like a very tough burden for you

Do you want to split the children?
That was much more common in the 1970s?

Noneedtoberudedear if he is personal and mean in his attacks and doesn't allow you to discuss your concerns without putting you down this will eventually have an impact on your children.

Other people have pointed out that yours is an unusually stressful situation and you're in the worst part of it. There is some truth in this.

But you have to be able to hear one another's concerns and communicate calmly and respectfully in times of stress. If you can't do this as a couple you are not going to be able to demonstrate healthy ways of managing conflict to your children.

I do think that people should work hard to resolve their differences where children are involved but that doesn't mean you have to tolerate belittling or spite from your DH. If he can't take a look at his behaviour and change his attitude fairly radically then it does sound as if you would be better to separate. An environment where one partner is routinely putting the other one down and being nasty to the other is not a healthy one for children to grow up in.

@thepeopleversuswork I really don’t even know how it got to this point. I feel
Like he hates me. It is so unhealthy for the babies. It cannot continue.

@Justapatchofgrass I’m not sure what you mean by splitting the children?

Would it be worth you agreeing to a period of testing the water? Before you decide if your relationship is over, do a few sessions of relate counselling, and go for a coffee or meal together and talk about something other than the children (even if it seems an excruciating prospect) - then, if go your separate ways, at least you know you have tried everything to make it work, and won’t be thinking ‘what if’...

FWIW I think having two children that age can push even a good relationship to the edge. You have had a long and stressful journey to have your twins and now they are here, they are wonderful, all consuming and exhausting. Your relationship will inevitably have changed with their arrival. There are lots of threads on mumsnet about husbands not responding well to the realisation that often comes with parenthood: that the world does not, in fact, revolve around them. It’s a real shock to some, particularly not to be the chief focus of their wife’s affection and attention. It doesn’t always manifest in a way that does justice to the person they are - insecurity can do that to us all. I think it takes a while for everyone to find an even keel after children arrive and it is not always easy.

Good luck whatever you both decide.

I left my ex when my DT’s were 2. It was the best decision. Obviously it was hard, and it wasn’t the ideal plan that I had. But given the circumstances, it was the best decision for everyone.

I think children can do really well with separated parents. Especially if the parents keep things in the kids best interests. My ex and I do family things together with the kids. We spend Christmas Day together as a family (my family celebrates Christmas on a different day to accommodate this, so the kids get 2 celebrations and don’t have to be separated from either parent on important days).

I really remind myself that my goal is what is in the kids best interests. And long term, I don’t want my children to ever worry about having both of their parents at events like weddings or graduations. It can be hard at times, but it helps to try and keep the emotion out of it.

It is much better to be separated than constantly walking on eggshells , waiting for the next argument. I didn’t want my kids to think that was normal.

My parents separated when I was 11. They are now good friends and meet up quiet often. DH parents have been together nearly 40 years and his Mom likes to let people know this yet they fight constantly and are no way matched.

The first few years can be extremely tough. We have a 2 year old and 9 week old. My sister had twins through IVF and they really struggled the first few years. Going through years of IVF, pregnancies,babies, sleepless nights etc is tough.

Can you sit down and agree to a time line. Say a year from now? Agree that the arguments need to stop especially in front of the children. This is non negotiable. Go to counselling as you have said and both give it everything you have got. If in a year it hasn’t improved then you both walk away knowing you gave it your all. Figure out if it is just the stress of everything going on or it’s really over.

Best of luck Op.