To think that match betting is still gambling

[Firstimer703]

Earlier on, I sat down with my husband and son for a family breakfast. A minute or so in, DH took his phone out and when I said about not having phones at the table (as I thought we agreed), he basis he had to put a bet on. I said I didn't think that was a good reason and he wouldn't be happy if I did it and I didn't think he'd let DS do it in the future. He completely kicked off, shouting at me in front of DS and being very aggressive.

He's been doing match betting which I've asked him not to do from the start. He told me today he's disappointed that I'm not interested and haven't listened when he's tried to explain. When he has to put a bet on during a 10 minute breakfast with his family and the reason is that he'll lose money if he doesn't, it looks like addiction to me! AIBU?

It is the bookies money that they are taking as the bookies are the ones making less as a result of it

Not always - when you use Betfair, someone is making a bet with you. You have it covered - but does the person who is matching your bet have it covered?

50p, @crustycrab.

Because I'm not stupid and can afford to chuck that amount away if I'm wrong.

Straight over your head then!

Absolutely no reason to think that op's DH is gambling. From what she has said it's the opposite.

You are stupid to offer to throw 50p away.

Meanwhile I've been doing it over 3 years and make 500 a month and have never lost a penny

@MacabreMannequinFun

Where do you think some of that money has come from?

Some of it has come from the gambling company who gave you the free bet and it won.

Some of it will have come from the person who matched your bet at Betfair and lost.

So it's not gambling - but it is part of the gambling industry.

Some of it will have come from the person who matched your bet at Betfair and lost.

The person would have lost the money whether or not someone is match betting though wouldn't they? They don't lose more as a result and if the money doesn't go to the person match betting it will go to the gambling industry. I know which I prefer.

Not always - when you use Betfair, someone is making a bet with you. You have it covered - but does the person who is matching your bet have it covered?

So are you saying they wouldn't place a bet if there wasn't someone match betting?

The person would have lost the money whether or not someone is match betting though wouldn't they

They are on Betfair to do a bet with someone. So yes, someone would have taken their money. They just happened to find someone who did Matched Betting.

Matched Betters are part of the gambling industry in the same way as Bookies are. They offer odds to people who then take them up on that bet.

Because"'with Betfair, you are the bookie".

Without gamblers, it would be impossible for matched betting to exist.

So are you saying they wouldn't place a bet if there wasn't someone match betting

They wouldn't place a bet on if there wasn't someone prepared to offer to take their bet.

When you are matched betting, you are acting as the bookmaker.

So when you do match betting, you are being the bookmaker. There are plenty of other bookmakers out there - matched betters just add to the numbers.

@chomalungma well obviously without gambling it would be impossible for matched betting to exist.

What's your point?

You speak of gambling like it's always a bad thing. For many people gambling isn't the devil.

is it just me as a MBor who can't think of a an offer in which he will lose money in the 10 minutes? A QL if he's not able to place a free in-play perhaps, but that would be all of up to £1.50ish. It's the opportunity to make an extra tenner or so he would have lost surely

You speak of gambling like it's always a bad thing. For many people gambling isn't the devil

For many people it isn't. Just like drink isn't a bad thing for many people.

But there are also many people affected by gambling just like they are affected by drink.

I suppose it depends on your view of gambling, your concerns over gambling addiction and whether you are happy to be part of that industry.

I'll be honest - I made quite a bit of money out of it as well. I could also see how the gambling industry worked. I got loads of offers when I signed up. Especially the casino ones. I could see how people could get sucked in and lose money from the temptations the gambling industry offered.

😂 you're talking like I'm mrs Ladbroke.

When you lay a bet yes, you're acting in the same manner a bookie would with regards to that particular bet.

Laying a bet is not what people don't like about bookies.

It's the tactics used to draw punters in. I lay bets on an exchange. I don't dazzle people with huge jackpots, offer incentives or anything like that. Because I'm not actually a bookie like you are suggesting.

Whoever placed their bet on the exchange would place their bet on a different site or bookie if the exchange didn't exist.

It is the exchange itself that allowed matched betting.

Whoever placed their bet on the exchange would place their bet on a different site or bookie if the exchange didn't exist

Yes they would. Just like someone would buy a drink from another shop if the local shop didn't exist.

Because I'm not actually a bookie like you are suggesting

When you win at Betfair at 10 - 1,, where has your £100 for example come from?

@WomensRightsAreContraversial

"It's the opportunity to make an extra tenner or so he would have lost surely"

Well isn't that the same as losing money if he's going to act on that opportunity?

That's like saying I had the opportunity of a shift at work tonight but my wife has locked me in. I couldn't get to work so my opportunity to earn money was lost

It's come from the exchange. They make their money by providing a platform for people to back and lay bets and changing them commission.

People choose to bet (or lay) or not to. They choose whether they want to match that bet at another bookie. It is the option to lay a bet that created matched betting. Not the fact people gamble.

You can try and simplify it all you like to make your theory fit but the fact is we aren't bookies. We take no risk, we also don't entice punters in to gamble more and more with our flashy slots and free bets.

Maybe I'm just a pedant! but no, I don't consider the lost opportunity to make a profit to be the same as losing money - if I go out to the theatre(!?) on a Saturday and don't mb I don't think thats cost me £50 lost mb profit. If I paid for theatre tickets but they were faked, I would consider that lost money.

It's come from the exchange. They make their money by providing a platform for people to back and lay bets and changing them commission

You have layed a bet. Someone has backed it.

The money you win has come from someone who has lost it. Same for the money you lost at Betfair goes to a person who has taken your bet on.

Betfair gets its commission.

No, you don't have fancy free bets, enticing offers.

But you are still part of the industry.

You could bypass the commission and hang out near a bookie offering your own odds to a passerby. It would save you the commission and you can't lose as your free bet is there at the other bookies.

How is something where you’re literally “betting” not gambling?

I think some basic knowledge may be useful.

Bookies only have back bets. You can bet on your bet winning but you can't bet on your bet not winning.

Exchanges allow betting on an outcome not being the case.

So I can bet with the bookies that Liverpool win and lay with the exchange that they do not win (lose or draw). If the bet at the bookies 'wins', the bet at the exchange 'loses' and vice versa. Thus there is no gambling as any possible event has an equal outcome. Liverpool may have won at the bookies but the winnings just cover the losses at the exchange. This is a pointless exercise unless free bets or other offers apply.

Bookies offer odds on something happening but not on it not happening. Say there are 11 horses in a race, the probability of a particular horse winning is not the same as the probability of it not winning. So more often than not, you lose at the bookies (and MBs win at the exchange). The fact that mug betters lose more often than they win explains reload offers. Not everyone is addicted to gambling and will give up if not at least intermittently rewarded.

But even without MB, exchanges would still exist (these days) because they permit trading on the sports market in exchange for commission. This is the same buy high/sell low principle as all commodities trading. I buy £50 at odds of 4.4 and sell at 4.0 and so make a profit. Real traders take advantage of small movements and so buy and sell multiple times.

MBs just buy and sell once and exploit free bets and offers.

How is something where you’re literally “betting” not gambling

When you gamble, there is a chance you might lose your money. You can't with matched betting.

You sign up and get a £10 free bet if you gamble £10.

You put a bet on at £10 and put on the 'opposite bet' at Betfair.

If it wins, you lose at Betfair. Or vice versa. So you are even.

But you get a £10 free bet. You can either put the free bet on and take a chance, or you put it on and match it at Betfair with the opposite bet.

Either way, you can't lose. You should turn that free bet into maybe 75% of what it's worth.

Lots of bookies give free bets and offers.

"But you are still part of the industry"

Never said I wasn't. Just challenged the way you were simplifying it and lumping is as "bookies". Because that's not the case as you've now said.

Glad it's cleared it up

You coming back OP?

Matched betting can be completely risk free if you want too, then it is completely not gambling.

On some of the offers you will need you use your own money first say bet £10 to get 10 free spins with no wagering. You have to trust the Maths behind it.

I would say if you have an addictive personality or have gambled before it is easy to use some of your profits and gamble and chase losses.

I have been Matched Betting since 2017 and have made well over £20,000 this is on a part time basis.

Those who don't understand there are places you can read up online.

@JingsMahBucket

I bet my friend Paddy a tenner that our mate Mo will win the singing competition in our local pub tonight.

Meanwhile my other mate Fred hasn't seen me in a while, and offers me a free bet worth a tenner. I place a bet with him that Mo win Not win the singing competition.

So either my bet with paddy wins and I profit from that bet, or my bet with Mo wins and I profit from that bet. There is no scenario where I lose both bets.

Yes we’re part of the gambling industry, but are not gamblers. Yes, if we win a bet, someone has lost money matching it (if mug also a matched bettor). If it’s a genuine gambler who has lost money on the exchange, they would have lost regardless.

I really don’t give two hoots that I’m part of the gambling industry. Generally people make enough to help pay some bills or treat the family to a nice holiday. It helps a lot of people who would otherwise be struggling. In the grand scheme of things, each individual earns peanuts compared to the profits of the bookmakers who are probably sat on their boat in the Mediterranean, sipping on a martini right now.

Based on my experiences most people refuse to believe because they have to be right

Yep, it's really not a hard concept to grasp either so not sure why people don't even look into what it's about