To ask you why so many children have anxiety these days

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Why is today's parenting producing youngsters with so little resilience?

I work in a job where I talk to lots of people with MH problems, but I am not a MH worker. Pretty much everyone who tells me that their children have MH problems already suffers from depression, anxiety, PTSD or some combination of these things themselves. I don't think much of it is likely to be genetic - if I was living with the chronic financial stress and insecurity and lack of hope for the future that I see at work daily I'd be fucking anxious too, and I don't think I'd be able to help conveying that to my DC, no matter how hard I tried to avoid this.

There is shall a danger of pathologising normal feelings too. I know a young lad who said to me "I wish I didn't have anxiety..." In told him that he didn't "have anxiety," he simply felt anxious sometimes, as we all do. But his belief that he had anxiety perpetuated those feelings and beliefs.

@Chienloup It is interesting that working in child MH that you see this as I also believe this is something that is happening in some situations. I certainly hear it from my DC about situations where a classmates that 'have anxiety' when really being worried about exams or going through a bump in life does not mean that you 'have anxiety' and it does a disservice to those who genuinely suffer from MH issues.

I don't necessarily think it takes away from the experiences of others, @Backintime, or does anyone a disservice, but it certainly clouds the young person's self-perception and holds them back. Whilst I don't want to pathologise normal feelings, nor do I belittle or undermine the experiences they are currently living. It's about them understanding that they can reframe their beliefs about anxiety and themselves.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/anxiety-and-panic-attacks/about-anxiety/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg9-Rlt3Y5QIVQuDtCh04Aw7DEAAYASAAEgJpcPD_BwE#.XcRihSWnwlR

This is one of the places you’re steered to if waiting for help with anxiety. We don’t need the correct pc jargon that satisfies some lucky enough not to suffer from it thanks. My ds can tick every one and none of us give a thought as to to how we refer to it. We just want it gone.

I resent the shit he has gone through being referred to as a bump in life and I also resent being told that how he refers to what he is feeling is supposed to impact on others. What utter bollacks. He feels shit enough as it is, feeling guilty for feeling crap and not referring to it in the right way isn’t needed thanks.

Thus thread illustrates how ignorant many are and the long way we have to go in this country as regards to dealing with mental health.

It's a bit like the kids who get up on the stage at Wembley or some other go do an X factor audition and say "I'm really shy". Um no you're really not or you wouldn't have chosen to get up there.

They choose to feel like this. What an awful thing to say.

V1
It's not ignorant to say there is a difference between normal ups and downs Vs anxiety.

Put it this way, would you be happy if your son was told he couldn't get the support he so very much needs because others have decided their ups/downs are the latest mental health label to have (not disparaging actual issues here, more that working with teens certain labels become the latest thing to self diagnose with, then suddenly there's loads of claims and then it dies down and months later there's a new problem that apparently lots of people have)?

We saw this with fidget spinners for example. For a period of a few months suddenly every tom, dick and Harry apparently had ADHD traits that meant they needed a fidget spinner. No desire for actual EdPsyc assessment or medical involvement, but their child definitely had just a bit of ADHD and we were awful for only letting the children with SEND plans (broader than EHCPs) have their strategies. Then it wasn't the in thing anymore and as if by magic we suddenly don't have large cohorts claiming ADHD.

We pay our own in house mental health staff and I know other schools have sent teachers on mental health courses and given them a reduced timetable to support teen mental health because CAMHS is so overwhelmed that they can't do what needs to be done. Should this support be going to those with a clear need, or those who've decided that they don't like a particular teacher/subject so they now have self/parent diagnosed anxiety?

You are lumping them all in as one. How do you differentiate between the worthy and not worthy? You don’t know the circumstances, ins and outs of every child.

You are lumping them all in as one. How do you differentiate between the worthy and not worthy? You don’t know the circumstances, ins and outs of every child

I'm not lumping everyone together.

I just happen to struggle watching a system where teens who have attempted suicide or taken overdoses or are harming or are engaging in risk taking behaviours or aren't able to get the help the desperately need whilst other adults claim that anything and everything including normal ups and downs in life is somehow all a mental health issue.

Again, would you be happy for your child to miss out on the support and resources they need because someone decided that normal teen hormones and normal teen bumps are somehow a mental health issue?

Other adults aren’t claiming that anything and everything, normal ups and downs are mental health issues.

Your language is appalling.

In our service we don't turn anyone away. We either assign a worker or therapist to them, or we work with the family to refer into a more appropriate service - be that an eating disorders clinic, sexual trauma service, early intervention in psychosis or many others. Young people and children are triaged by need into group sessions, short term work, or intense work, and we assess again at the end of the "treatment" to see if they still need any more support. Those children who find it harder to cope with life's "normal" ups and downs are considered and offered appropriate support just as someone with a highly traumatic past is offered support for their situation.
Even if, on assessment, a young person shows no signs I am concerned about, they have still referred themselves or been referred, for a reason and I want to explore that with them and give them the support to self-made their thoughts, feelings, and behaviours in the future.

*self-manage, not self-made!

I do know though that we are lucky in my area that we have a separate, specialist Tier 2 service which sits under CAMHS and works with those who don't meet CAMHS thresholds. Not everywhere has that.

V1
You're still not saying whether you'd be happy with your child missing out on access to support and services that get taken up by others experiencing normal teen ups and downs.

There's nothing appalling about saying there is a difference between normal ups and downs and mental health.

Just like there is a difference between a headache and migraine, a difference between dietary preferences and an allergy, someone being a bit unfit and someone having an exercise induced asthma attack and so on.
Of course maybe we should argue they're also all the same too

Chienloup
That's good. You're right about not all areas having it.
It's why many schools in my area, including mine, have our own in house staff to try and keep the support for those who fall short of the ever increasing CAMHS thresholds. It's absolutely heartbreaking trying to get some of our students the specialist support they need.

If CAMHS threshold is ever increasing I fail to see how the undeserving are getting treatment they don’t need.

Your posts don’t make sense.

I trust professionals to make the right judgements. I also certainly don’t resent families going through shit getting what they need even if it pushes us down the queue.

Sorry I’ve not read the entire thread but to my mind It’s very simple, children are micro managed by paranoid adults, this effects their development to grow and develop, parents are so focused on doing the right thing or making memories that the growing of a decent human has taken second place to I hope my children are forever thankful for my brilliant parenting.

Don't make sense because it doesn't suit your opinion.

There's charities having to try and fill the gaps.
There's schools having to take money out of education to try to fill the gaps.

You say people are being ignorant on the thread because people have explored a range of issue surrounding clinical anxiety, self-diagnosed anxiety, normal lumps and bumps being pathologised, adult behaviour that can lead to teens feeling overwhelmed or unable to cope etc. Many posters have rightly said it's complex. It's not ignorant to point out thr differences between those situations.

Again, would you be happy with your child missing out on support they need because another parent has decided their child's teenage lumps and bumps are mental health? Because within the system we see people having to make the call on who gets what day in day out.

But you said CAMHS aren’t giving out support willy billy and are raising the bar ever higher. A parent deciding their teenager’s “lumps and bumps” are a mental health issue that actually doesn’t need support won’t get it and won’t be taking it from anybody.

Again, CAMHS aren't the only support out there.

Sadly, I've seen colleagues having to advocate for vulnerable kids who just 2/3 years ago would have been in CAMHS to get placed with charity support workers and school mental health staff against the vocal "I've decided my teen has anxiety because of friends falling out social media, but I'm not going to remove their smartphone and contiyto give them 24/7 access to social media" lobby (probably the sorts of people who come on MN and get told to threaten to kick off, threaten to report the school for safeguarding and so on to get their own way).

Out of interest, have you actually worked with a range of teenagers with complex social and emotional and mental health issues? Because if you had then I think you'd surely understand why people who do want to ensure that very limited resources are going to the correct people and not to whoever self diagnoses and shouts loudest.

So you advocate for the truly needy and identify the undeserving. The undeserving are thus not taking anything from others.

I do what is in my remit and training, and let others do likewise.

However, I also know the reality of the system and know how awful it is when there's staff being bullied and harassed by armchair psychologists. To crudely generalise, the ones more likely to take the pushy, demanding, talk up normal lumps and bumps and kick off to try and get their own way tend to be the middle class, have money etc (obviously not all middle classes with anxious teens are like that), whilst those who are really vulnerable without pushy partners are relying not only on professionals like teachers/TAs identifying concerns, but also those staff to have to battle the obnoxious demanding types on their behalf.
Hand on heart, I've seen bullying parents harass their way into things and I have seen situation where whoever shouts loudest gets the access they want. It's sadly an approach suggested for a range of issues on education threads too often for my liking. Some kids do end up missing out.

Well clearly CAMHS are targeting the most deserving as their thresholds are tighter in your view.

If your school is giving way to underserving “middle class” parents when they shouldn’t that is a problem only they can sort.

It's not for teachers or parents to decide who is deserving or undeserving.

If concerns have been raised about a child, either by their parent or any other adult in their life, or by the child themselves, they need to be assessed by a mental health professional who is actually qualified to make those decisions.

Remember that you may not actually have all the information you need to decide who is deserving or not. The child and parent may not disclose important information to you for privacy reasons (which is within their rights), you may not know the child's life story up to very recently. Just because a child comes from a "middle class" background doesn't mean they haven't experienced multiple ACEs/trauma/have a shitty life.

lady
Please enlighten me as to where all these mental health professionals are who have space to go through every single teen who might not be feeling 100% all the time. Find me a council that has the time, capacity and money to do detailed psychological assessments for anyone who happens to have been on Google and self diagnosed.

I'm intrigued because where I am we see kids being turned away from CAMHS services for not being a big enough danger to themselves to warrant full assessment.

This leaves schools and charities trying to plus the gaps, and that will mean people who have taken additional qualifications (eg. Qualifications in trauma informed practice, SEMH qualifications, level 3 counselling etc).

Nobody is saying that a middle class child can't have mental health issues. That's a very selective spin. My point is that someone kicking off their child hasn't got to see the school mental well-being staff because of friend issues on social media causing "anxiety" tends to be from the pushy middle class type of person, meanwhile there's other childreb who are floundering trying to keep their head above water due to a whole host of complex issues and not all of them have parents who can or will advocate for them.

It's all very noble to essentially say 'everyone who says they're not happy should be able to push for full psychological assessment'. But that's no different to people saying 'every child should be assessed for at least 23 different additional needs on the chance it wasn't a case of finding their y8 exams hard'. It's very noble, but it doesn't work.