To not really understand why people get so angry about toddlers being rough?

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Went to soft play this morning (for my many sins), to meet some a couple of friends and their toddlers. There was a small Wendy house thing that DS (16 months) was playing in, and another toddler (maybe slightly older, but not much) came over, wanted to play with it and pushed DS over, scratching his face as he did it. I went over to grab DS (who was grizzling but clearly not hurt) and the other boy's mother apologised profusely, to which I said 'oh, don't worry, he's tiny, he doesn't know what he's doing'. She looked surprised by this and my friends when I got back also seemed surprised that I hadn't been angry and started saying that the other little boy was 'spiteful' - wtf?! He was 18 months old at the most! But thinking about it I see this a lot - there are constant (in my view ridiculous) arguments at soft play and there's some drama at DS's nursery (in the room above him, so I've not paid too much heed) where some parents want a biter chucked out of the nursery.

Is it weird that I just don't really get this reaction? Obviously I'd move DS away and say 'no' if he hurt another child (it's never actually come up) but I think it's crazy to act like it's some act of malevolence - young toddlers genuinely don't know that other people have feelings! Am I missing some kind of basic instinct that everyone else has here? Fwiw I told DH about the soft play incident and he was furious - we both thought the other one was being really weird about it!

Some toddlers are too rough though, it's not fair on the smaller kids (mine were very small for age) when bigger kids ruin places like soft play for them. Even at 18 months kids know right from wrong, you teach them by the kid being removed for a minutes or two (keep it in proportion they are only young) not ignoring anti social behaviour

I don’t mind rough toddlers at soft play, they don’t mean it and usually the parent is closely supervising and apologetic.

Kids who are clearly too old for the toddler section playing rough in there whilst their parents ignore them on the other hand.....rage!!

Don't agree at 18 months babies know right from wrong. It is attitudes like this are the problem. Babies are toddlers for far longer than they are helpless newborns. Stucknoue's comment demonstrates the silly unrealistic expectations put on very young children, thus creating the anxiety for their parents. Education perhaps needs to be introduced as part of course with antenatal classes to try and roll out some compassion and empathy within our society.

it's not fair on the smaller kids (mine were very small for age) when bigger kids ruin places like soft play for them

But as lots of pp have said, using size as a determinant of behaviour is very unfair. My son is tall and probably always will be - so he has to be magically better behaved than your DC at the same age just because yours are short?

About 20 years ago before mobile phones were in everyones pocket my daughter was invited to one of those soft play centres for a birthday party. She loved it, other kids were really nice, parents doing gentle supervision, all sweetness and light. Then, another child (not part of the birthday party) bumped -quite literally bumped - into another little girl who was fell onto her bum, as kids do. She was obviously a bit taken aback and let out a little wail that probab'y would have lasted 10 seconds but instantly her mother leapt up screaming almost incoherantly. This in itself was bad enough but she then stormed to the reception desk and started a tirade of abuse at the poor lass at the desk. Believe it or not she was demanding that the police be called because her daughter had been assaulted and she was going to sue the centre and the girl on the desk for allowing grievous bodily harm to her precious little girl, who by this time was toddling around happily playing tag with the others. This unbelievable tirade included the theat that when her husband arrived with the phone she was going to call the police and her solicitor. Couple of minutes later said husband did arrive and after listening patiently told her not to be so fecking stupid, daughter was fine and happy. The family left shortly after, little girl protesting at going, mother still sounding off at the cente, the reception girl, bad parents, the world, everything... Unbelievable.

Parents are rude. At the park the other day my son was playing in the sand and other boy was already playing near by. He didn’t bring toys my son did. My son has issues sharing as most toddlers do..plus he is autistic and it’s especially hard for him to be social and share. Anyways the little boy came over and grabbed the toys from my sons hand my kid took it back and in the process sand got on the kids clothes. Kid (2 years older than my then 2 year old) started freaking out ..dad that was on the phone texting not paying attention comes over and grabs his kid and says out loud “Some kids are mean kids that’s a mean kid who doesn’t share” and went on and on and on.
Kids are mean. Parents are meaner. I personally said “it’s okay that, that boy took your toys from you without asking, but it’s not okay to stoop to there level and grab back next time let’s ask but that doesn’t make you a mean kid you’re just learning” the dad said sorry etc but dang.
Where I live people care a bit too little. Kids will push my kids over that are much older and parents aren’t even paying attention or just say oops sorry and not remove their children when their children won’t stop being mean.

You're spot on OP. Good for you. Normal behaviour for an 18 month old (and onwards!) Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to read up on child development. And then get a grip.

You cannot use size for any sort of comparison. Sorry you have small children? Watch them more carefully. I watch my children more carefully because they are giants. My just turned 3 year old and is over 40 inches and 40 pounds. At one year old he looked 2.5 and definitely shouldn’t be held to a standard of an older toddler when he was just a baby.

I'm with you OP, I am pretty chill when it comes to things like this. I go to a baby group and when my DS was about 1, he went to play with the train set and there was a little boy already playing with it (he was about 6 months older) and he kept pushing my DS and at one point pushed him over, my DS wasn't bothered and just kept going back, so I left him to it, the mother did intervene, say sorry and told him not to do it again, but I have an older DD, so my DS is used to just being pushed out if the way and I know it is fine, because he isn't one to retaliate.
I used to have to watch my DD though because she was generally very good and would play nicely with other kids when little, but if they did anything to her she would retaliate.
The only time I got really annoyed was again at baby group, my DD was about 2/3 at the time and there was this particular little boy about 3/4 who was always hurting other kids and his mum never watched him or intervened, he had picked up one of those toy screws form the building area and had come over to play with the dolls house where my DD was playing nicely, he came over played for a little bit then for no reason leaned over and pressed the screw into my DD's hand hard enough to leave a mark. I know she hadn't done anything as I was watching them because I knew what he was like, it wasn't an accident, it was completely deliberate.

Aaaand that was me posting on the wrong thread! Sorry all!

Also after my mass essay, I forgot to add, I dont think it is necessarily miss information that causes the extreme reactions, in my experience it is anxiety. I have a friend who has a little boy about the same age as my son and we went to a soft play, there was a boy maybe a year older than ours who was just being a typical 2.5/3 year old running around and trying to play, every time he came near, she moved her son away from him, mine went off playing with him and got bumped over, my friend was horrified, I wasn't bothered, my DS got straight up and carried in playing with him. She has really bad anxiety focused around her DS though, and that is where it is all coming from and I think that is where some of the over reaction of others comes from.

I have to say that is one of my other bugbears, along with scooters. Parents that look preplexed at taking their household contents to the park and wondering why younger toddlers want to play with said scooter or toy belonging to another child, especially if it is left strewn on the grass. Why would a toddler know not to automatically touch, just because their in a park? Think about it they don't know the difference at being allowed to play with everything in a playgroup setting, and not being able to touch certain things in a park because it personally belongs to someone else. It really annoys me. There are have been times I have left the park in exasperation because there was only so much of no don't touch that scooter that has just been left abandoned. Or leave that ball belonging to some child, when my innocent toddler tried to join in a game. Then being snapped at by parents/grandparents with sanctimonious "Thank yous" when I have managed to finally distract my toddler away. In my 39years on the planet I managed to get by without ever snapping at a toddler, and I am genuinely shocked that this is how people can be. Why have kids then if they annoy you so much? I am genuinely interested. People are so wrapped up in their own little bubble they just can't see how selfish and nasty they come accross. Honestly if you don't want your child to play mix with anyone, stay at home and not venture into a public place such as a park. I find it oh so infuriating, I really do.

YANBU.

People don't always watch their kids but toddlers can be tough but they are learning

I’d be annoyed if the parent didn’t at least applogise to me or tell their child it is wrong. Once a 2 year old boy hit my 21 month old girl in the face a few times and she fell down a step. She started crying, but the boy’s mum said ‘it’s just kids being kids’

I said ‘but she’s crying, she’s hurt’, and the mum said ‘what do you want me to do? Smack him?’

It turned into an attack on me (the mum and her mum) cos I tried to stand up for my child. They kept saying he’s 2, it wasn’t malicious. But they weren’t listening to my point that if he is taught that it is ok cos it’s what kids do, he will grow up to think this is ok.

So yes, so long as I can see the parents trying to do something about it, I’m happy. It could be my child doing it soon

YANBU at all. Terrible 2’s, terrorist 3’s, 4nagers. ALL VERY REAL THINGS. I have 4 kids so I definitely know 😂. They grow out of it as long as you’re raising them as best you can

You're not weird.

As for lacking any 'instinct' - only you can know that because only you know how you react/don't react. And even if you are lacking in anything - does it matter? (asking as you seem to mention it multiple times)

I do think that you are over simplifying some things. Not getting angry and saying that babies/toddlers are beyond understanding implications is too broad a statement. They do understand to a certain extent. And even if they are too young to understand implications of their actions, they are not too young to understand 'no'.

I don't think people are annoyed at children. They are usually annoyed at parenting (or lack of).

And the biting/scratching examples - I would be with the parents asking for action to be taken for a 'biter' or 'scratcher'. My late teen DD has a scar on her face from a nursery classmate who persistently hit, bit, scratched, pulled hair, kicked - basically used physical overpowering to manage her needs and wants. This is not acceptable to other children. And why should it be. She also has a scar on her arm from a one of my best friend's DS who also would get very physical. On the day he bit a chunk out of my DD's arm, I pulled him away and said 'no, that is not OK'. His mum jumped up and cuddled him and repeatedly said 'it's OK, it's OK, it's OK'. That is what is annoying. How is a child supposed to learn? Boundaries - even if they don't quite understand them, they can still be set.

Think this sums up this post perfectly. Just seen this on my Facebook feed. :-)

Expectations are the Enemy of Parents

I would say over 90% of the parenting dilemmas posed to me daily have one very simple answer; "you're expecting too much of them".

Our expectations of child behaviour are totally warped in society today. We just expect too much of kids (and no age or behaviour is immune). We expect them to sleep like adults. We expect them to control their impulses like adults, regulate their emotions like adults, manage their time like adults, observe social rules and niceties like adults and eat like adults (and as adults - our eating is totally screwed and unnatural, check out my 'Gentle Eating Book' for more). We expect them to consider the consequences of their actions like adults, communicate like adults and plan for the future like adults. If they can't do these things we desperately try to 'fix them' and train and discipline them to do them (and frequently get frustrated when our efforts fail).

The thing is babies can't do these things. Toddlers can't do these things. School aged children can't do these things. Teenagers can't do these things - heck, even adults struggle to do these things a lot of the time! .

If you take just one piece of advice from me - please make it to drop your expectations. Stop expecting mature adult behaviour from a child (and teens are still children!) who has a totally different brain structure to you. It's a recipe for stress and disaster. You can't teach a baby to drive a car. You wouldn't even try......but that's what happens when you try to teach or discipline children to do something that is beyond their development and age ability. Understanding and accepting normal, natural child development is the way forward. Reset those expectations and if you can, adapt life around them for a while. This is the key to calmer, happier family life.

Toddlers don't understand, of course, but the benefit of a soft play place is that it's a great opportunity to teach them. This other toddler's mum was clearly taking advantage of this teachable moment, and that's great. It's not about blaming the parents or children when a toddler is rough. It's about modelling and encouraging better social skills for them. I'm sire you would do the same if your toddler pushed another one, and apologise for him if he hurt someone.