To not really understand why people get so angry about toddlers being rough?

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Went to soft play this morning (for my many sins), to meet some a couple of friends and their toddlers. There was a small Wendy house thing that DS (16 months) was playing in, and another toddler (maybe slightly older, but not much) came over, wanted to play with it and pushed DS over, scratching his face as he did it. I went over to grab DS (who was grizzling but clearly not hurt) and the other boy's mother apologised profusely, to which I said 'oh, don't worry, he's tiny, he doesn't know what he's doing'. She looked surprised by this and my friends when I got back also seemed surprised that I hadn't been angry and started saying that the other little boy was 'spiteful' - wtf?! He was 18 months old at the most! But thinking about it I see this a lot - there are constant (in my view ridiculous) arguments at soft play and there's some drama at DS's nursery (in the room above him, so I've not paid too much heed) where some parents want a biter chucked out of the nursery.

Is it weird that I just don't really get this reaction? Obviously I'd move DS away and say 'no' if he hurt another child (it's never actually come up) but I think it's crazy to act like it's some act of malevolence - young toddlers genuinely don't know that other people have feelings! Am I missing some kind of basic instinct that everyone else has here? Fwiw I told DH about the soft play incident and he was furious - we both thought the other one was being really weird about it!

"Too bloody right I expected the child to be removed from nursery"

You should have expected the nursery to manage his behaviour properly.

Totally agree with you. A similar thing has happened to me. My dd was knocked over by a toddler at a play cafe and the mother grabbed him, shouted at him for being a nasty little boy and apologised to me. She seemed surprised that I wasn't upset and then went on about how naughty and rough her son was.

My ds is almost 4 now but he went through a phase of being rough and I was confronted by angry parents many times despite my attempts to follow him around constantly because he pushed or ran into another child. I stopped going to groups for an few months as it was too stressful and I couldn't keep an eye on him the whole time with a newborn as well. I do understand but also think it's unreasonable to expect toddlers to be able to play and share nicely all the time. My son is a gentle, quiet boy but he had to learn how to be around other children.

My dd has never pushed or been rough so far despite being a far more feisty character than ds so maybe I would have had less sympathy if I hadn't had ds first.

when My youngest was born she had a 2 year-old and a 3 year-old sibling. I confirm that she has many times been jumped on, accidentally knocked over (once went flying like a skittle When her bowling ball brother went to tackle her whilst playing football on the lawn). If she was my first I’d have freaked out, but now I just brush her down and check for damage.

She is a tough little cookie as a result. The other day she went for said brother like a vicious alley cat because he stole her frozen wand. My eldest would just stand and cry. I can only guess I’ve not helped her by wrapping her up in cotton wool when she was my pfb.

That said I always tell mine off if they’ve been naughty at softply etc, and touch wood so far none have ever hurt another child at school/preschool.

A bit of biting/hitting/smacking is to be expected at that age. And those who don’t agree, if you have another child you will soon eat your words.

Too bloody right I expected the child to be removed from nursery and made it clear to staff that my child is not there to be assaulted and will not be attending while bitey child is resident.

Like monkey, I find this really strange. It's not a very nice stage but it's a stage. If nursery aren't dealing well with it then that might indicate other problems, but expecting them to ban the child is so extreme.

'So why did you give up your career?' 'Oh, my toddler went through a brief biting stage so naturally I had to isolate him entirely and use no form of childcare' - that's not a thing, is it?

Toddlers are savage

Absolutely agree. My DS has been the aggressor and I am instant to intervene and apologise with never much push back. And he has been pushed and I have accepted the apology no problem at all.

It's when parents know their child is in that phase and let them loose with no supervision that is frustrating!

My ds was only 18months old when I took him to a soft play and he discovered at that moment his wrist could flap. Queue flapping. Some other kids a bit oldest than him started flapping their gloves at him - he flapped back. Anyway, a woman left her about 1 year old up the top of the soft play whilst she held her baby and chatted to her friends, my d's climbed up the top whilst I was putting our stuff down and flapped near this kid. The 1 year old started crying so I said oh gosh I'm so sorry! Mother said cool don't worry, it's fine. I went over and told ds off and not to flap at people and stupidly and naively thought he wouldn't then do it again. Was about to go up there with him (I had to hover over him as he was a hugger, not everyone likes a hugger) when he flapped again at this young kid and caught the edge of his hair, I went to dash in there to move him away whilst at the same time opening my mouth to apologise profusely again when the mother screamed, literally screamed "you NASTY CHILD!!" and she haired up to the top of the soft play (i'd already got up there by this point) and leaned in his face and repeated he was a nasty little boy. I was like I'm so sorry, but he's only 18 months old" and she kept saying well he's a NASTY little boy. I apologised again and was shaking at this point and said well I hope this never happens to you (as in, that her child that she left in a soft play for kids up to 8, made another kid cry for whatever reason and an adult came screaming in their face), and she shouted "it NEVER will because I won't raise my children to be NASTY!!!". I've seen far far worse soft play incidents than a kid getting flapped at (one 2 year old was a notorious biter and hair puller for example), so I dread to think how she coped later in life when her kid was older, but ever since then I really feel.for people who get upset when their kid does something to another and apologise etc, expecting to get abuse for it.

I took my nephew to a soft play area and another child pulled his hair and wouldn’t let go. My nephew was about three and was screaming with pain. The child was about two. No parents about and I had to gently try and remove his hand - he had an iron like grip. The mum eventually appeared and was very apologetic, even sent over treats for my nephew.

I was perfectly polite to the lady, but a little annoyed that she wasn’t supervising her child more closely. Especially when she explained he was going through a phase of pulling other children’s hair.😳.

There are issues around having teenagers, but Thank God I don't have to do soft play anymore, it's a minefield...

Actually, that's not a bad idea...

I think you have a sensible attitude. Mine is a similar age to yours and I keep reminding myself that the older ones might be bigger but they are still very young and are bound to get a bit inpatient when the smaller ones get in the way. The only time I got upset was when an older child deliberately went up to mine and pushed her over so she hit her head and her CF mother didn't apologise.

I totally agree OP. I don't understand why people get furious about these things. Of course, if your child hurts another child you tell them that isn't ok. This is how they learn. But I've read stories on Facebook about these sorts of things happening and all the other moms pipe up 'I'd be fuming hun'. Really? You'd be angry at a 16 month old child? Does your child never push boundaries? I seriously doubt it. In fact, in my experience, the children of these parents tend to be a lot more sly about being mean to other children. That's obviously a bit of a generalisation, but I've definitely noticed this!

DS being 2 was hard. I was heavily pregnant/ postnatal with SPD and very compromised in what I could do with him for over 6 months. 18m later, a speech delay would finally be identified... DS expressed himself physically because he didn't have the words. Years later, it's become apparent that he struggles with changes of routine... some degree of SEN has been identified, on a waiting list for more investigations.

My pregnancy/ state of health/ arrival of sibling hit DS hard. He got bitten a few times at nursery... he became a biter himself. When he was bitten, I understood that it was a routine hazard of socialising with his peers.

I did my best to supervise him, but sometimes his mood would snap with little warning, and I physically couldn't helicopter him, I could barely even walk for many months. We didn't get out much, but had to sometimes to keep some trace of sanity. If he snapped, we went home, so there was a consequence.

If nurseries weren't supportive of toddlers who are struggling, a huge amount of harm would be done. DS wouldn't have finally had the support in addressing his speech delays and the support of trained staff for that age setting being able to do interventions within a group setting, much more powerful than what I could achieve at home.

Biting/ hitting is normal range behaviour for young children. It shouldn't be just dismissed because it is, but unless it is repetitive and always dismissed, there is no point in getting frothed up, righteous and angry about it.

I did the best I could at the time for the knowledge I had and my physical capacity. I had my concerns about his development then, but we were years away from action for that. My struggling 2 year old did not deserve months and months of house arrest and social isolation (it was bad enough as it was without some people baying for it just in case he did bite on the few occasions we made it out) and that would have compromised his development far more. A bit of patient understanding makes the world a better place.

Since becoming a mother, what has shocked me most is how a lot of people expect so much from babies that are just learning to walk. It is like they are not educated or informed on toddler brain development. I also think that it is a mostly British attitude. European countries especially are far more tolerant and calmer towards children, than what any average British person is.

I just can’t imagine starting a witch-hunt against a toddler - I’d be annoyed at the nursery

To be clear, I have no ill feeling towards the child.
I don't think the child is spiteful or anything.
I fully place the blame fair and square with the nursery and the parents.

But as I said to the staff, my child is not there to be assaulted.
The reason behind the biting is irrelevant, you, as in the nursery are not protecting my child and if bitey child continues biting and is unable to interact without injuring others they are too young at this stage to be there.

I would be annoyed but let a one off go.
This was frequent, targeted biting towards my son.
Why should my son who has done absolutely nothing wrong be unable to go to a nursery he loves because he is frightened and screaming hysterically refusing to get his coat on in the morning because another child keeps biting him?

I have three children and none of them have been violent to other children, nor my nieces and nephews, if my children were I would be mortified and very apologetic and if it became a regular thing I would pull them out of the setting because if they are unable to interact nicely they shouldn't be there.

I think some parents see children bigger than their own and assume a far higher level of development than is actually the norm. So a parent of a 2 year old might look at a 5 year old and expect them to be emotionally almost fully formed. Not seeing that a 5 year old is still very much a small child.

I agree completely - children that age don’t have that kind of understanding and viewing them as ‘nasty’ is ridiculous. They’re still learning - although I would always apologise on their behalf and correct their behaviour.

No I agree. We had a biter at nursery and I was one of the only parents not kicking off massively at the staff. I knew they were doing their best to stop the biter! They were being bitten too. But I started wondering if I wasn’t a good mum because I wasn’t making more of a fuss.

On the other hand, my five year old has just accidentally kicked me in the head thrashing about on our bed after being told off for something else, and I sent him to his room because I’m very sick of him hurting me, even by accident.

"I would pull them out of the setting because if they are unable to interact nicely they shouldn't be there."

If this lack of interacting nicely continued to school age would you not send them to school? Do you expect parents of disabled children who do this not to send them to nursery or school?

See I've never encountered anyone at soft play getting angry over toddlers argy-bargy- if it happens the parents are very reasonable about it all. Maybe I need to move to a less boring city 😂

frostedviolets

You blame the parents for the fact their child bites? Please research toddler biting. It is a common developmental behaviour which affects a signifiant number of toddlers. They aren’t being “violent” and while I am pleased your children are perfect, it is luck not judgment that you didn’t get a biter.

I agree the nursery needs to supervise to ensure children aren’t hurt and it sounds like you are right to be annoyed with the nursery if things got so far your child was hysterical at having to go to nursery but that is an unusual and extreme situation.

I go to a baby group with my DD (6 months) and I don’t mind at all if another baby hits or scratches or climbs over, they’re just babies and don’t know any better. I have only been really angry once as there is a kid in the baby group who is easily coming up to 2 years who pushed my baby over and scratched her face. That got me mad because of the size difference and that the mum was too busy chatting away to be supervising her child and because they should be in the toddler group, not the baby group.

I agree with you too.

And I've noticed as well that as soon as someone else's kid comes near mine to look at the same toy for example, the mother dashes over to move him along onto something else!!
I want my son to socialise with other kids and they're perfectly fine to play together for gods sake!!

There was an actual full blown punch-up at a softplay near me a couple of weeks ago!

GnomedePlume That's true. When my son was small, I thought toddlers seemed massive and was really wary of them. I look back and realise they were just babies! I've noticed mothers of small babies who already have boisterous toddlers/ preschoolers are far more tolerant of those age groups coming up to poke the baby.

A lot depends on how the parent handles it.

This for me too. I have a 2 yo. I have very minimal expectations of behaviour when it comes to other people's kids, but I expect parents to at least keep a watch of their child from nearby and intervene if needed. And if you know your child is a hitter/biter/whatever, then yes you follow closely/don't put them in that environment. My absolute bugbear is the "Charlie, don't do that... Charlie, don't do that again... Charlie, if you do that one more time we're going... Charlie, stop that..." school of parenting. Shock horror, your child doesn't respond to empty threats.