To not really understand why people get so angry about toddlers being rough?

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

Went to soft play this morning (for my many sins), to meet some a couple of friends and their toddlers. There was a small Wendy house thing that DS (16 months) was playing in, and another toddler (maybe slightly older, but not much) came over, wanted to play with it and pushed DS over, scratching his face as he did it. I went over to grab DS (who was grizzling but clearly not hurt) and the other boy's mother apologised profusely, to which I said 'oh, don't worry, he's tiny, he doesn't know what he's doing'. She looked surprised by this and my friends when I got back also seemed surprised that I hadn't been angry and started saying that the other little boy was 'spiteful' - wtf?! He was 18 months old at the most! But thinking about it I see this a lot - there are constant (in my view ridiculous) arguments at soft play and there's some drama at DS's nursery (in the room above him, so I've not paid too much heed) where some parents want a biter chucked out of the nursery.

Is it weird that I just don't really get this reaction? Obviously I'd move DS away and say 'no' if he hurt another child (it's never actually come up) but I think it's crazy to act like it's some act of malevolence - young toddlers genuinely don't know that other people have feelings! Am I missing some kind of basic instinct that everyone else has here? Fwiw I told DH about the soft play incident and he was furious - we both thought the other one was being really weird about it!

I think toddlers hitting sometimes is normal but as a parent you have to supervise. My little one went through a phase of grabbing faces. Thank God it’s past now. During soft play I literally watched her like a hawk and any sign she might hit intervened. I think it’s the parents who just ignore the kids that cause the problems.

Completely agree

Definitely more Mediterranean countries. I have watched in awe at playgroup at the patience and tolerance in regards to slapping, pushing etc while other mothers are hyperventilating at the slightest thing. It is scientific fact that until a child reaches 3 their frontal lobe cortex of the brain is not developed sufficiently enough to control outbursts etc. Why parents wish to go against human biology and expect toddlers to behave rationally is beyond me. Perhaps there is better education in thus countries to such matters. Either way I have been to enough playgroups etc to know there is definitely a culture difference in the approach to toddler behaviour in general.

I agree with you! But I also disagree with parents who don’t control or discipline their children because they claim they are too young to understand.

We took our godson (16 months) to soft play last week and he was desperate to go into the older section. The children were running round like crazy and he did get knocked over with no apology but at the end of the day they are only children enjoying theirselves. If it’s an issue, stay in the baby section

I think it needs to be age appropriate, screaming and shouting at a toddler will probably make them act out even worse in the long run. There are better ways to handle the situation, and sometimes when a parent is acting quite calm, that can be interpreted that nothing is being done, when in fact that maybe that particular mothers parenting style, and she may actually be handling things, just not in an obvious screamy shouty way.

bibble it's crap isn't it, the way people assume tall dc should have behaviour and consideration years beyond their age. Mine are both teens now so we've had it all over the years. My favourite had to be a parent at school sports day in reception that I overheard bitching because she shouldn't have been allowed to compete against smaller children. Wouldn't mind but it was the usual fun stuff and he knew how old she was.

My DS went through a phase of hitting when he was around 15 months. We went to a birthday party where he hit a slightly smaller baby (12 months ish?) because I got to him very slightly too late. I told him no and apologised profusely, the mother told me I should control him better and looked daggers at me and him for the next hour. It made me feel like a really crap parent, but looking back he regularly got hit/pushed at toddler group and I never made a fuss because that's what small children do!

Slightly different, but yesterday we watched appalled as a Mum screamed at her "Really Naughty" child, looked less than 18 months in a forward facing pushchair as they'd obviously grabbed at a card in the shop they'd just been in and they were intently examining it as they left and walked up the street. "You DON'T take things into your pram!!" Older children yes, maybe they do need a scare, but this one really was a baby :(
I got into the habit of practically frisking mine before we left shops.! They'd become very adept at hiding things in their cosy-toes the second my radar was on something else, e.g. getting my purse out, etc.

That's thing you never know how other parents will react until something happens. I always assume other parents will make a fuss over something small and if they turn out to be reasonably minded that is a bonus for me. I find that in general people have a very low tolerance threshold for other peoples kids, but how can they expect others to show any compassion for their little darlings if the tables turn? To me it is just basic common sense. But worryingly it is not just the hitting, biting thing. I am fortunate to have a very happy sociable little 2 year old, and when she tries to join in play in a public place, parents expect me to shoo her away, because she is joining in with their children's play. I think that is just downright mean and nasty and can't get my head around it. I suppose because I am 41 years old, I am seeing aspects to motherhood I never thought to take into account when having a baby. When you have been child free for so long, you have this image of what things must be like, I suppose I thought all mothers would stick together and help each other out and be understanding to all elements of parenthood. I suppose I was just being naive really. The reality is a bit different, so I am finding out.

It’s not the child’s fault BUT the parent should remove the child, remove the toy if they’ve used it to hit with, and firmly convey displeasure and tell them off. The annoying parents are those who either do nothing, or just gently whine “that’s naughty” but completely fail to remove either child or toy.

It's more the way the parents react that annoys me. They may not understand what they are doing but they need to be told their behaviour isn't acceptable and reprimanded. They will never learn if their parents never tell them their behaviour is wrong

I agree that I'd always be more concerned about the parents' reaction than the child's.

I get that some toddlers go through a phase of biting or hitting or whatever, and there but for the grace of god go all of us. I also get that we don't know what's going on in a small child's life, and it might be that child is acting out for any reason from an unwelcome new sibling to being adopted after neglect.

I know I was that child who didn't know how to play gently with others. I don't remember how I was as a toddler, but later on, I know I was that child. And now, my brothers children are those children. And my heart breaks for them, because I see quite well why they are like that.

My youngest niece is just a few weeks younger than my DD, and recently we went on holiday together. In one of many incidents, she slammed my DD into the floor, jumped on her, grabbed her hair and bashed her head down ... and looked, giggling, to see how DD was reacting. When she saw DD was sobbing in terror she was quite obviously bemused - because this is how she has learned to play. Her older siblings do this to her, to the point that she has come to think it is normal. Her parents don't intervene.

And the thing that struck me was that my niece was so sad. She was genuinely bewildered that she couldn't make friends. She could see something had gone wrong, but she really didn't understand why jumping on someone and hitting them wouldn't lead to a nice friendly response. And that is so very sad, and makes me feel awful for her.

Naturally I spent a week trying to protect my DD from her cousins, but because they are my nieces and my nephew, I don't just think 'oh, what horrible rough children'. Instead I am furious and sad to see children so badly failed by their parents. And I do try to think about that and keep it in mind.

My son is 3 but people don’t realise this as he’s so blooming tall! But I’ve been the same - they’re just small and don’t understand everything yet. It happens. My son was pushed over by another woman’s kid at soft play and he told me about it but I just asked if he was ok. The other mum found out and brought her son over to say sorry and he gave my son a massive hug. She was mortified I was just all “Oh isn’t that just adorable!”

As long as no one is bleeding and it’s not literally them punching the crap out of each other it’s just something to go along with.

Sometimes though parents of older children conveniently forget what toddler's can be like and display absolutely no tolerance whatsoever. Their children are passed that age bracket so they can be as smug as they like. Their toddler's could have been absolute horrors, but no one will ever know. They tut the loudest and can be plain rude.

Btw, to be clear - when I say I'm more concerned about the parents' reaction, I don't mean I expect the parents to wave a magic wand and stop a child biting/hitting/whatever.

It's totally normal for toddlers to hurt each other by mistake or on purpose or whatever. It's totally normal for toddlers to be giant ego-maniacs.

But we do that placeholder thing of apologising for them.

I have a toddler who can be rough sometimes and sometimes I feel very judged by other parents, it makes me feel like shit.

When I'm having a good day I can deal with him effectively but sometimes I'm having a bad day and I struggle to deal with it. Worrying about what other people think makes it ten times worse.

If we're at a group or soft play or whatever, it's fucking stressful because I have to watch him like a hawk, and because I'm human I will sometimes look away for a minute, which is of course the moment he snatches a toy or pushes another child. I end up getting really stressed and self conscious and I don't know how to deal with it because I didn't see exactly what happened and because other people are watching me.

If I see him snatch a toy, I tell him not to, take it off him and give it back to the child, but usually the other parent is overly polite and says "oh no don't worry he can have it" and then whisks child off to play with something else in order to avoid being anywhere near the terrible mother and her nightmare child.

If I see him push or hit another child on purpose, which he went through a phase of doing but doesn't do so much any more (touch wood), I will immediately remove him and tell him off, I don't let him go back to whatever he was playing with and I enforce a time out... perhaps some people think I should immediately leave? Idk. But in the few times it's happened, my response has worked and he has behaved better afterwards. I always feel absolutely mortified though and the worst thing is that I often feel too awkward and embarrassed to apologise to the parent, often there are parents and children close together so i don't know who is who, i worry about getting it wrong or the parent being rude to me.

What I am finding difficult at the moment is what to do when DS accidentally knocks into another child, for example when he jumps into a ball pit I always remind him to be careful and not jump onto other children, but when there are a few children and limited space it can be tricky, and sometimes accidental knocks happen. With children smaller than him I am hyper vigilant, but with older ones I tend to think it comes with the territory, loads of them knock into him all the time and if it's a small knock he's not bothered (bigger knocks he'll need a cuddle and I'll remind the older child to be careful). So anyway the other day he jumped into a ball pit and knocked an older boy, he didn't jump onto him on purpose and didn't knock him badly (from what I could see) so I didn't remove him and tell him off, I just reminded him to be careful and not jump on other children. The problem is that the older boy started crying (it didn't look as if he'd been hurt but maybe he had, or maybe he was just sensitive), so I told DS he had made the boy sad and would he like to say sorry, of course DS (who was generally being a pain that day) did not want to say sorry... so I ended up looking like a shit ineffectual parent and feeling judged by everyone.

I just feel that you can't win in these situations. In order to teach my son how to behave appropriately I have to take him places and do my best to manage his behaviour (I don't always deal with it perfectly and try to learn for next time), but there is absolutely no sense of solidarity or support, it's just silent judginess and people getting precious about their own children.

@anotheremma, No, you did not look like a shit ineffectual parent! No one in their right mind thinks a toddler will always (or even, often) spontaneously apologise. Surely?! I certainly would not expect it and would be quite surprised if a child under, say, 4 or 5 were able to apologise on cue every time. I would take the parent asking 'say sorry to the boy' as the apology.

DD has never, to my knowledge, said sorry to anyone. (And I lost my shit with her earlier today as she hit me quite deliberately and refused to apologise). I reckon they don't, at this age. I'm pretty sure most toddler interactions are more about learning the very, very, very basics of hearing parents apologise for them.

If there are parents making you feel bad about your toddler not saying sorry or not being perfect, then frankly, they are absolute sanctimonious wankers. Do not let them upset you for a minute. They are the ones being knobs.

Rough and tumble yes. Uncontrolled and unchecked agression - nope right off.

Also biters should be removed until they've outgrown the phase or are able to be controlled and monitored. Biting happens but it can be addressed and prevented. If the parents won't do it why the hell should that be the nursery's responsibility.

We found that rather than saying "be careful" to DS which he mostly ignores, we ask him "where are you going?" "what's infront of you?" "Oh no, you can't jump there, where can you jump from?" "Do you want to wait to take your turn?" (When a
kid was infront of him) and that sort of thing, having a little back and forth about it. So he could assess the situation in his little toddler brain and come to a conclusion.

He's 2.5 and has got it almost sussed right now. How long that will last though I dunno. He still runs up to babies in the sensory area and tries to kiss them 🙈

@AnotherEmma that was for you sorry ^

@SarahAndQuack
Thank you lovely

@Andys
Some helpful suggestions there, thank you. I do talk to him positively about taking turns, waiting for his turn (he responds well to that thankfully) but I like the idea of encouraging his problem solving to look for a place to jump - not that he needs encouragement, he is perfectly capable of working it out. He jumped into the only space that was left by the older boy spread eagled in the middle of the ball pit at the foot of the slide into it (it was a smallish ball pit at a community hall soft play). Meh, anyway. DS and I were both having a bad day that day!

Your DS sounds very sweet wanting to kiss the babies. My DS has his moments, he can be incredibly sweet with the younger ones, but can sometimes be a bit aggressive, hence the stress of having to watch him so carefully.

Oh and while I was reading DS a book these other kids wanted to come and listen too, I was of course friendly and welcoming to them but their mother fucking APOLOGISED to me, I was like what the fuck?! What are we coming to when parents are apologising for their children taking interest in a book someone else is reading?!

I think as long as the other parent is on it and supervising accordingly then whilst sometimes frustrating really they are all just toddlers most unable to express their huge emotions like we can, my daughter is a biter, hitter and lately a scratcher 🙃 I watch her constantly and spirit her away when I see the signs of a lashing out are coming. The odd time she’s moved too fast for me to grab and the other parents have been lovely with me as they can see I’m properly watching her, I’d expect anger if I just let her roam free to do whatever she wanted to other toddlers

Perhaps we should ask ourselves why do we take our children to softplay or playgroup etc. For me it is definitely for the social/interaction element, even more so for being an only child. I suppose not everyone has the same reasons. I h

I have come to the conclusion that for the park, if other parents don't wish for their children to have interaction with others it is due to a lack of back garden at home. As I have a large garden at home, my reasons are not just about play, it is definitely for the social aspect as well.