Dh wants to buy a holiday home. AIBU to think it's an awful idea?

[flametrees]

Dh wants to buy a holiday home in a location we visit every year. At least once with kids and once alone.
We also visit other places though.
I cannot see any advantages to owning a holiday home there. Property is expensive for what you get.
We will have maintenance costs. The worry that it will be broken into when we are not there etc
Plus I think he will never want to visit anywhere else if he buys a holiday home there. While I enjoy the location it isn't somewhere I want to limit my entire future holidays to.

AIBU to think buying a holiday home is a really bad idea?

Is he Spanish? Or at least fluent in the language and an EU citizen?

If you are after an arguement against other than "I don't want to" - how about:

We don't know what will happen re Brexit and what that will mean to visiting/costs/taxes. It would be foolish to buy now if prices might well fall post Brexit.

I wont go without you for several weeks, even if you want me to. Do not factor in use beyond when you can go.

I dont speak fluent Spanish. English is fine for when you are just dealing with tourist focussed companies, but if we owe a property, we will have occasions over the years when we will need to deal with electricians, plumbers, builders, local government etc. We might get lucky and find ones who speak English, but you can't presume they will be able to conduct a conversation about technical issues in a 2nd language. As you work full time, are you expecting me to deal with all the management of a 2nd property in a second language? I wont be able to.

Can't you just run it via an agency and use it as a holiday let but block out a few weeks that you fancy for yourselves each year? That's what we do and it works just fine plus the rental income covers all the overhead and earns income that frankly does pay for our other holidays each year. We have a mega lock up cupboard there with all our personal belongings, own pillows etc so when we go, it quickly becomes a home from home. The agency management covers all the house maintenance too....we have Hive heating, online billing etc - so a lot is managed remotely. I probably stick my head in once every 8 weeks in low season. It's let out for 32 weeks a year to families via a good reputable agency not Air bnb. We enjoy it.

For the price of a holiday home, you could have an amazing around-the-world year out or a bloody good holiday each year. I particularly like the idea of a holiday investment fund.

If you blow it all on holidays the money is just gone, but invested in property you retain the fund while having holidays into the bargain. It’s a nest egg.

Not saying that I would invest in Spain if I could choose anywhere, but the same principle applies.

Has no one mentioned the impact Brexit could have on this decision to look at Spain? If/ when we leave our freedom of movement will/ may change, and it could/might have impacts on tax, healthcare, property ownership/ ability to sell/transfer money without penalties. Besides the very clear you don't want to, part of the debate here must surely be that now is not the time to do it for some/ all of these reasons.

I like the idea, but PIL, who have within the last few years retired, have a holiday home. They bought it about nine years ago. Even with them both now being retired, and it being available to all of us to stay, it is barely used. It is only about an hour and a half’s drive away too. On paper, it should be really well used, but it’s just not. It is a house in a coastal village, where nearly all houses are occupied by their owners all year round, everyone buys from the local shops etc. I wonder what the residents honestly think, would they have ‘preferred’ someone to have bought the house who would live in it way more.

That's what we do and it works just fine plus the rental income covers all the overhead and earns income that frankly does pay for our other holidays each year.

Exactly. Would you mind if ask where your property is?

As per the double taxation agreement you can choose to pay tax in Spain or U.K. It’s not hard to keep a spreadsheet of rental income.

PPs are referring to the taxes relating to rental income. You have to be registered to rent property out in Spain and you are taxed on it, whether or not you are resident and paying tax in the UK (or other home country).

In my car, as a UK resident and tax payer, I still have to pay a non residents tax in Spain based on what the Spanish authorities calculate I might be earning in rental, even though I don't actually rent out my home.

*case, not car

PPs are referring to the taxes relating to rental income.

As am I. The double taxation agreement means you can choose whether to pay tax on your rental income in Spain or the U.K.

I have a holiday home that I share with my brother and I love it very much but it's not that far from home (just over two hours drive) so we can come and go easily. It's also a lot of work as it's another household to run, fortunately my brother does a lot of it as he doesn't have DC so has more time. If you're not that fond of the area anyway then you are really going to resent all the extra work even more, it won't be a holiday it'll just be more admin and maintenance.

Why isn't he considering Brexit?
It would be silly to buy a property now when we don't know what the rules are going to be after Brexit.
There are all kinds of issues arising - allowed length of stay or number of days per year; healthcare - EHIC no longer valid; what taxes/laws apply to third-country nationals in Spain as opposed to EU citizens; possible taxes on bank transfers...
It's certainly not going to be as easy as it once was.
I don't know if third-country nationals are even allowed to buy property in Spain - in some other European countries they aren't allowed to without gaining special permission (which is hard to obtain).

There's lots to think about here from that perspective but the number one thing is that you don't want a permanent holiday home in the area. You need to keep telling him this until he gets the message.

The main issues are that her DH is unilaterally making a big financial decision

• "his" money, because he earns it ?

AND
he is demanding that the OP stay there for several weeks every year with the kids - and without him to share the parenting.

Seems the OP doesn't want to stay in the same place for several weeks every year, regardless of where it is

I'm also concerned he is the high earner and she is the much lower, or an SAHM

@drinkswineoutofamug didn’t the insurance make good?

Be careful about flight costs. I know quite a few people who bought property in France and Spain and thought that the cheap flights to a local regional airport during the early noughties would continue forever.

They didn't.

I think there are several issues:

1. As per OP’s question - whether holiday homes a good/bad idea in principle

1. Whether buying a holiday home somewhere you don’t like is a good idea.

1. Whether being married to someone who would make such a big decision without your agreement is a good idea.

The double taxation agreement means you can choose whether to pay tax on your rental income in Spain or the U.K. all very well while the UK is part of the EU and this still applies.
Also, as (I assume) non Spanish speakers, they will need someone to navigate all of this for them.

Yes, I agree Tatiana, it's not really about Spain as such. I just wanted to add that there are tax implications and expenses to consider and that these would be in another language and in the EU, that the UK may soon not be a part of, or that these bilateral agreements might not apply in the future if we Brexit.

One of the many reasons leaving the EU is a terrible idea.

You can always find accountants with good English, probably more so in Spain than elsewhere.

Unless it's an investment and you commercially let its not worth it, if letting is the intention, get prices for management before you even look at properties so you know if it's feasible

Thank you all so much for the replies. I thought I would be told first world problem get over yourself.
I am a SAHM and he does make lots of big decisions and then convinces me we made the decision.
I'm not very good at suggesting things myself so I never have an alternative so I just sound peevish and ungrateful.

I'm going to use some of the arguments here. I particularly like the holiday fund idea. I think he would like that as it would be an actual plan so he could get on board with it and tell his work friends about his idea.

My parents have what was a holiday home in france, but as teachers, they went for the whole school holidays and "got their moneys worth", then retired there. They have not been anywhere other than this house or England for a holiday since 2003 when they bought it.

Buying a holiday home is not like renting a villa that got your stuff in it, it's like running a 2nd home, but one where you struggle to talk to the tradespeople you need to do maintenance work, and in a tax and legal system different to what you are used to (also all in another language), and with the added complications of not knowing what the legal and tax system will be this time next year post-Brexit.

It doesn't sound like this will suit you or that your dh has enough holiday allowance to justify buying a place that sits empty for most of the year.

Have you tried pushing something like a Neilson or Mark Warner holiday where there's lots of activities for the dcs, so that they will find an apartment with no other English children their age around might seem terribly dull afterwards?

Buy it and then you can use sites like People Like Us and swap houses around the world. You do not have to do simultaneous ones - you can bank them as well. I started in Portugal 15 years ago with a holiday apartment - and I have now moved to Portugal full time (three years ago)

It's something my parents considered when they retired, but chose not to after speaking to friends who had done so.

Main reasons...

1. Unless you're prepared to rent it out when not using it, it's a very expensive way to holiday.

1. If you do rent it, then it stops feeling like a home (it's a destination) because you have to consider how you present/furnish/maintain it not for yourselves but for other people's benefit. You have additional costs to cover, like cleaning/laundry to pay for and manage. Also dangers here, one of their friends after installing cctv found out the cleaning company they used were secretly renting out the house themselves and pocketing the cash (because they knew the dates from the owners when people would be staying there).

1. If you don't rent it out then you'll still get "requests" from friends family to use it (for free). Three issues here. Firstly becoming resentful at finding free holidays for people that end up costing you money (cleaning, pool maintainable etc). Secondly managing a diary of when people can go, and in some cases family arguments because 2 different families want to go out at half term. Thirdly you then find yourself unable to go for an ad hoc break because a family friend is already using your holiday home. Of course you can simply say no, but that can cause issues itself. Basically, managing other people's expectations is a pain in the bum.

1. It becomes boring. You don't feel you can go anywhere else otherwise you are wasting the asset. Yes, for a while it's nice knowing the area, knowing your accommodation and having things stored there, but it grows old quickly. Then you hear about friends going on holiday to XYZ place and realise they have more freedom than you have and it's costing them less.

1. Exchange rates mean your costs can be difficult to predict - Brexit will make this worse in all likelihood.

1. The market for this type of home in Spain is pretty flooded. Lots of people have lost huge sums of money when they try and sell because there is always a newer "shiny" development. If you do buy then avoid developments and buy a unique property. Also get good legal advice. Properly law/ownership/land rights are very different and lots of people have been burned badly.

"he does make lots of big decisions and then convinces me we made the decision."

That sounds like gaslighting to me.
Does he do (m)any things on this list?
signs of emotional abuse