Three persons worth of sick leave

[SayWhaaaat]

Name changed!

Ok, I may be unreasonable here, I'm not sure.
I work in a job where attention is important and losing focus can potentially result in multiple fatalities at the very worst case scenario. Most likely occurrence is just a small incident though.

Last night I had the worst night sleep thanks to the kids both waking up at various times, about 3 hours total.

I've had sick days recently because my kids had chicken pox and then again cos they had a vomiting bug.
If you have 3 absences in 3 months at my company then you get a disciplinary.
2 disciplinaries = sacking.

Aibu that I can't take a sick day for myself when I'm exhausted for risk of losing my job as I have to have time off for the sickness of three people!
You'd think employers would take it into account but they're very rigid with their procedures.

(Just want to add that obviously if I felt there was any danger at all when at work then I would stop and go home)

I agree OP

Someone with 5 young kids is going to be absent more than someone with no kids and its harsh to be discriminated against. At my work they let us take it as holiday or unpaid leave and at least with holiday it only fucks up your holiday allowance.

You will get loads of people on mumsnet saying your employer isn't a charity etc but I think that they should look at the quality and loyalty of the employee (which absence policies dont) as its totally different in my opinion a 1 year employee with a dodgy work record taking 3 days off, to an employee with a 10 year history who works hard and has quality work. If they want to lose the latter because of one extra day of absence then they are pretty stupid to be honest. The time and money it takes to replace and retrain an employee who can equally go off with 2 absences and isn't as likely to be as good as a top employee......it just doesnt make sense

Do you have a partner/kids dad who could have stayed off on one of the other occasions.

It’s a similar policy where I work

I agree that leaving your sick child with a stranger is far from ideal. In the OP's shoes, I'd sign up with agency before I had an emergency and see whether I could have a couple of nannies babysit my kids when they were well, i.e. get to know them in advance.

Still not ideal but I'm trying to think of practical solutions to her situation. What's the alternative if there's no available family help and the OP and her DH work in industries with strict policies?

he only other solution is for one of them to move into a role that gives them more flexibility until their DC are older.

Of course, if there are legal protections, that's great. But the OP will have to look into that. OP, just assume your DC will pick up plenty of bugs for the next few years, mine still get the odd one at 14 & 1!

That should've been 11, not 1.

I would have said it was a childcare problem that way its not a sick day

@Jack80 it wasn't a sick day. The disciplinary is triggered by 3 absences not 3 sickness absences

My employers are the same, the sick absence policy is punitive so you go in sick, work from home when sick if that’s possible for you. And until your children are 5 you can use your parental leave days which are unpaid, but a legal entitlement, for when they are sick.

And until your children are 5 you can use your parental leave days which are unpaid, but a legal entitlement, for when they are sick.

parental leave is until 18 now. but needs to be taken in full weeks (unless the child is disabled) and requested in advance. It is not there to cover sick kids on a short notice.

The correct leave for OP is emergency leave for dependants. It's s statutory right. And I think the OP's employer is potentially discriminating as this will effect women much more than men as women the often the primary caregiver end make up the lion share of lone parents. Speak to the union and Acas. I don't think they have a leg to stand on.

As long as the ETOD was 'reasonable' (the law does not define this, but Qua v John Morrison Solicitors and Naisbett v Npower give some clarity) then this is your statutory right and cannot be of detriment to you. There is also potential for indirect sex discrimination.

Stealthpolarbear I don't think people have been saying that employers "can't" discipline for absences that contravene their absence policy in this case 3 episodes in 3 months.

People are suggesting OP clarify whether it's 3 episodes of absence per se or sickness absence. If the latter, her absences with her sick children don't 'count'.

Also, I don't think many people are saying that you can take as long as you like. Employees have a statutory right to take leave to arrange other childcare, although there's no guarantee that this will be possible. This is somewhat of a grey area, but employees can't realistically be expected to take leave to arrange other care, not find any, then leave their sick child can they? Otherwise, dependents leave wouldn't need to exist.

Has anyone actually had any experience of these nanny agencies that can source a local nanny who is happy to look after one or more children they've never met before with a d&V virus at a couple of hours notice by any chance?

Aridane would you mind sharing your experiences?

Honestly I know it's hard. I work full time and don't have family near by so the toddler years in particular were a nightmare trying to manage things when our three were sick. Having said all that it' can be a nightmare for employers and their colleagues when a employee is frequently absent .. I believe it can be the reason why employers pick between two other identical candidates and if I employed people myself I can see the temptation. In every company there are people who genuinely try where ever possible and there are people who cite every excuse not to. Tired in my eyes is the latter

OP said that she was exhausted. She has children, works shifts and does the lion's share of the childcare.

I think it's fair to say that she knows the difference between being tired and being exhausted.

Yes, it's tough, and OP went into work and did her shift. A shift that could have been covered by someone else - hardly a 'nightmare' situation for an employer.

These threads really depress me. The great majority of parents work, either for economic necessity or because they choose to. The great majority of employees are hard-working, committed, loyal and don't take the piss.

It really saddens me that people choose to criticise the woman - for not being ill enough, for not arranging other childcare, for daring to think about her own health needs, for not choosing a 'family friendly' job - when the structural problems are punitive and unrealistic policies under pinned by some sort of fantasy that people don't get ill.

I know I'm a bit over-invested in this. I've been self-employed for years (mainly to fit around my children's needs as we don't have any family support...) and it was hellish when they were younger. Although my partner and I split the time off necessary to care for sick children, it meant that I couldn't rest or stop working when I was ill or exhausted eg when pregnant. I would spend all day looking after a sick child, and be catching up working late at night before I went to bed to be woken by a sick child and then get up at the crack of dawn to get a 6am train

I ended up becoming very ill when my youngest was a baby, more than partly because months of exhaustion caught up with me.

I think that should be a cautionary tale btw, not a 'how to...' guide.

It's hard when you have employers who are not understanding of working families and it's like you don't want to work, but when you have sick children and no support around you, it makes it hard. It does seem like an unfair situation your in with your employer, but sadly I have no advice for you. Is there anyway you can speak to HR or maybe acas and see where you stand with it. I've been blessed with a new job where I have really understanding employers when it comes to working families and it's such a shame that more cant beca understanding.

I am always astonished at people who poo poo ' being tired' as nothing. If you are seriously sleep deprived, your reactions and ability to function are sometimes as badly affected as if you were drunk. In most jobs ( but particularly onees where mistakes can cost lives), going to work in a sleep deprived state is as bad as going to work drunk in my opinion.

Are you railway OP? Ignore the people dismissing the fatigue, they likely have no idea what they're talking about.

People where I work have previously booked on and told the rosters clerk they're fatigued and their jobs have been covered. Once you declare it to the company it's a hell of a risk for them to insist you work. If it's a one off thing it would be accepted as just a whole load of shit timing.

Severe sleep deprivation has a more significant effect on reflexes, memory, decision-making, judgements and emotional responses than being drunk, according to neurological research.

It's interesting when mothers (and it's usually the mothers..) of babies post about severe deprivation and exhaustion, responses tend to be along the lines of 'you must get some rest'.

Any sense that a woman's need to rest might affect employers gets quickly shot down.

I think some posters are questioning why OP was the one to get 3 hours sleep and risk working tired when she knew this would lead to disciplinary action. She has a partner, he could have let her sleep.

Unless you inform your employer at the time that your children/other is ill they will go on what you tell them.

If you phone in sick then it will be recorded as sick leave and not dependants leave. Depends on what you said when you phoned in.

Excellent post thehorseandhisboy

That’s amazing cheers4nothing! The government page says you can use your emergency time to take the sick child to the doctor, then use parental leave. In fact there are 2 links to parental leave from the emergency care for dependents page. Until they are 18!

Woolyheads if you actually read the parental leave link you refer to, it explains that it has to be requested 21 days in advance and can only be taken for whole weeks. So it's good for "my child will be incapacitated for weeks and I need to be at home/hospital to look after them" and not so good for "my child has a minor illness and will be off school for 2 or 3 days".

Red sky tonight I read it alright and I am very excited.