Three persons worth of sick leave

[SayWhaaaat]

Name changed!

Ok, I may be unreasonable here, I'm not sure.
I work in a job where attention is important and losing focus can potentially result in multiple fatalities at the very worst case scenario. Most likely occurrence is just a small incident though.

Last night I had the worst night sleep thanks to the kids both waking up at various times, about 3 hours total.

I've had sick days recently because my kids had chicken pox and then again cos they had a vomiting bug.
If you have 3 absences in 3 months at my company then you get a disciplinary.
2 disciplinaries = sacking.

Aibu that I can't take a sick day for myself when I'm exhausted for risk of losing my job as I have to have time off for the sickness of three people!
You'd think employers would take it into account but they're very rigid with their procedures.

(Just want to add that obviously if I felt there was any danger at all when at work then I would stop and go home)

@thehorseandhisboy

Whatever route you chose for looking after a sick dependant is up,to you. I just wish to displace the misplaced assumption that this care is not available.

As you were.

I’m actually wondering if you’ve misunderstood your policy. I’m assuming that you don’t automatically get a disciplinary after the 3 absences, but just have an investigation meeting. If it was true that 3 absences = disciplinary + 2 disciplinarians = automatic dismissal, I think you’d find a lot of tribunals happening due to discrimination against disabilities, surgeries, etc.

As another pp said upthread, ask if you can take the day as AL.

Aridane it's not actually 'available' if you can't afford it is it?

It's not actually available if the agency doesn't have a nanny willing and able to care for a child with D&V at short notice is it?

Aside from the child's emotional needs, children need to be cared for by someone they know if at all possible so that changes etc can be quickly identified. One of my children had unusual complications with chicken pox - I picked this up because he was so different to how he usually is. A stranger wouldn't have recognised this.

There is no way either of my children would have been okay about being left with a stranger when they were ill.

Fortunately, my partner and I have been able to share the load when our children have been ill.

Thehorseandhisboy

Well maybe a job more appropriate would make sense then or ask her partner to help or family !

A sick day for tiredness is likely why they clamp down on absences. Three absences in three months is very high so not unreasonable of the employer.

You are entitled to emergency dependants leave by law but it’s there to make alternative arrangements not to cover the actual sickness period so a day at most.

caroline21 as OP said, she didn't see this coming when she had children!

I agree about expecting her partner to pull his weight though. As others say, somehow men's jobs always seem to be more important and the masking of the needs for time off for children's illnesses in male dominated workplaces (as OP's is) means that women in OP's position are penalised and can never let themselves take time off for illness.

OP said that she was exhausted btw, not tired. Doing shift work, having children and picking up the whole slack of children being sick means that OP knows the difference!

Please join a trade union and get yourself proper representation in the workplace along with free legal advice and representation should you ever need it (along with lots of other benefits and discounts).

These policies sound unreasonable but you don't need to struggle on your own, unions exist for a reason and you're stronger in one! Don't wait till there's a problem.

www.tuc.org.uk/join-union

When I managed a large department (50+), the men took far less time off for child's illnesses than the women. It's the default position to say the father's job is more demanding, complicated, valuable.

The point being that they were all doing the same type of work but somewhere employers must have been told husbands couldn't take time off, while I was being told the same!

The problem I see on threads like this is usually that the children’s father has a very super duper important job and apparently couldn’t possibly take time off. I rarely see threads like this from single parents. It is much easier - although still a delicate balancing act - when you have 2 parents to equally share the load. I fully appreciate some jobs are almost impossible to get emergency leave from but I do think some men shirk their responsibility to their children.

The problem isn’t the work policy, it’s that the mother is doing it alone when the children have fathers. People also give a lot of incorrect advice on these threads which isn’t helpful.

Union!

My best friends husband is a bus driver. Due to idiotic shift patterns he's rapidly becoming more and more exhausted. He nearly lost control last week due to his body being knackered and his limbs just being fucked, the company told him to crack on with the rest of his shift or face a disciplinary. Fucking bonkers. He doesn't want to kill anyone, and no back up at all from a bus company that continually cancels services due to staff not turning up...

@ifonly4 Do you have kids? I can hardly control them waking up multiple times in the night, all I can do is calm and comfort them. I was actually in bed myself early! 3 hours sleep total I had.
Well I managed today anyway with a lot of caffeine and sugar, I am now going to get my littlest baby to bed and go to bed myself too!
Thanks for everyone who commented, I've got a meeting with the union rep next week when he's in the office to have a chat about it and a few other things.

@thehorseandhisboy Absolutely 100% (awesome username too!)

@thehorseandhisboy

What is this world of which you speak in which it is possible to find short term childcare for a child or children who have chicken pox or a d&v virus?

I was curious so did a quick online search for my area and a couple of services immediately popped up. I'm sure they're expensive and it's not idea to leave a sick child with a stranger - but what's the alternative? As you rightly said, many people don't have family willing/able to help in these situations so it's got to be a parent or a paid carer.

All parents everywhere face this problem so we have to factor it into our employment choices...it sucks but we chose to have children so it's our responsibility. I've been part-time for several years because of our DC's needs, it's not what I really want, but it works best for our family.

Re. Taking a sick day for tiredness. How would anyone know? I rarely take a sick day but when I have, I've never described my symptoms in graphic detail! If you don't feel well enough to safely do your job, tell them you feel terrible and go to bed.

IAmIcraxzyorwhat2 I did the same googling, and there were emergency childcare services that were very clear that parents/carers needed to let them know about any contagious illnesses a child had in order to find an appropriate nanny.

I can't imagine that there are many nannies who would be prepared to look after a child with a D&V bug at a few hours notice, can you?

Just because a service is available online doesn't mean that it actually exists in reality.

Hope that you can get some rest over the weekend OP. As well as your union rep, you need to have a discussion with your partner!

I was curious so did a quick online search for my area and a couple of services immediately popped up. I'm sure they're expensive and it's not idea to leave a sick child with a stranger - but what's the alternative?

so you have never left your sick child with a compete stranger whom you just recruited an hour before leaving for work yet give this nonsense advice?

Seriously, give your head a wobble!

You are absolutely not entitled by law to have emergency time off for sick children! Whoever gave that advice on here is 100% incorrect.
A lot of employers will allow you time to sort out alternative care but it is not statutory whatsoever!

@ladyvimes you're incorrect. The law allows you time off to deal with an emergency involving dependants. A quick Google will confirm.

@ladyvimes you are talking rubbish. Every employee is allowed time off to deal with an emergency involving a dependant as statutory.

A dependant could be a spouse, partner, child, grandchild, parent, or someone who depends on you for care.

Trying to imagine just how many nanny's willingly sign themselves up as d+v cover. Not even for a kid they have spent time with and got to know and have some attachment to, just some random spewing, crapping strange kid.

I would imagine it's not the most highly sought position 😂 I expect they must get paid a lot though.

I have a sickness phobia so I shudder at the idea

*spewing, crapping strange kid that almost certainly will be crying for its parents

Its depend leave its cant be used as an absence . Just call ACAS . If they took you to dicsiplinary is would not stand up

It's amazing how time off to arrange care turns into time off for as long as needed on these threads. And how you can't be disciplined for it

I hear you, @StealthPolarBear, I heR you

They may have rules on absence but I suspect if they actually tried to sack you for being off for your sick children you could win a tribunal against that because it would be pretty unreasonable grounds for sacking you.