Three persons worth of sick leave

[SayWhaaaat]

Name changed!

Ok, I may be unreasonable here, I'm not sure.
I work in a job where attention is important and losing focus can potentially result in multiple fatalities at the very worst case scenario. Most likely occurrence is just a small incident though.

Last night I had the worst night sleep thanks to the kids both waking up at various times, about 3 hours total.

I've had sick days recently because my kids had chicken pox and then again cos they had a vomiting bug.
If you have 3 absences in 3 months at my company then you get a disciplinary.
2 disciplinaries = sacking.

Aibu that I can't take a sick day for myself when I'm exhausted for risk of losing my job as I have to have time off for the sickness of three people!
You'd think employers would take it into account but they're very rigid with their procedures.

(Just want to add that obviously if I felt there was any danger at all when at work then I would stop and go home)

I think YABU to consider a sick day for tiredness though.

agreed.

Obviously meant no such thing as ‘parental leave’ for illness, etc.

There is no such thing as ‘parental leave’ and a company has no obligation to allow a parent time off when their children are sick

yes, there is. you can take off time for dependents in an emergency - covers also sick kids. it's a statutory right.

It’s better to get your kids / you signed off every sickness period (and perhaps even take off the max time off) than take individual days, because the signed off sickness looks better during a disciplinary. If your employer is going to be inflexible you need to learn how to play them at their own game.

We do have a union yes!

No it's 3 periods of absence so someone who's been off 3 separate days could be in trouble more than someone who's been off for 3 weeks in one go.

I wouldn't normally consider tiredness sickness no but given the type of job and the potential worst case injury... 🤷🏼‍♀️

Are you an air traffic controller?? Of course tiredness matters in a job like that.

To be clear, you do not take sick leave to look after sick family members. That’s a total piss take. You may be able to use some paid compassionate leave if offered by your company or unpaid parental leave to find an alternative carer for the sick person. Or you use your own annual leave or unpaid leave.

check with you union about the fact that dependants leave counts in your absence policy! doesn't sound right.

So phone your employer, explain you are tired and ask to take a/l? The worst that can happen is they say no.
Sorry if I've missed it but do you have a partner?

I do have a partner. He works in a job with chemicals where timing is important and he can't take absence easily. He's even gone in briefly when he's been vomiting cos he can't leave things too long so it's a real struggle for him to be off.
My job, there are people who can cover my shift.

I think my manager might be in the wrong here then by the sounds of it?
That's interesting! I will be finding my union rep!

But you could, potentially, lose your job. He needs to work out a way to do his share.

The OP has said her employer's policy is a disciplinary following 3 periods of absence (regardless of the reasons for the absence).

To be fair 3 periods of absence in 3 months is a lot of absence.
OP - do you have a partner? If so, they should be covering half the children's sick leave.

@Reachedsohigh He does do his fair share - more than really - in everything else. It's the last minute thing he struggles with cos he can arrange things in advance to fit his timings (like school holidays etc) if he needs to be off but if it's last minute then sometimes there's sometimes nothing he can do about it.

I don't think your manager is wrong unfortunately. Emergency dependants leave is a statutory right but is only to allow time to arrange something else. You haven't said how many days you have been off for but I imagine it was more than one on each occasion, which is unlikely to be covered under emergency leave. It's tough to be a working parent.

Your not wrong about it being tough! I had no idea it was going to be like this, never occurred to me all this before I had kids! lol.

@clairethewitch70 Something along those lines.

As if it’s not stressful enough for your children to be ill you have the added stress of your own occasionally need for sick leave plus this sort of pressure. We haven’t moved on much have we ? Shortsighted as today’s children are tomorrow’s workers .
Shame the primary caregiver such as yourself isn’t given more support .

The problem with getting enough leave to find an alternative carer is that who is going to look after children with a vomiting bug? My parents/MIL have health conditions which mean they can’t risk getting infections particularly sickness bugs. I wouldn’t look after someone else’s child of it meant risking a d&v bug in our house either.

My annual leave is dictated as well so we are allowed a certain amount of paid dependents’ leave to accommodate the fact that we have no other option.

@SayWhaaaat

I very much doubt if "2 disciplinaries" is a legal ground for dismissal! It sounds to me as if your employer thinks that every disciplinary is a negative out come for the employee.

Are you a member of a union at work. [Probably not?]. You can always join one [Unison for example] and while they will not help for past problems they will give advice for the future

yes the whole 'time to arrange alternative care' used to drive me crazy - because you cannot pay someone to look after a sick child. Anyone that works in childcare is going to exclude sick kids and anyway they need a parent.

YANBU Op, check with your union but this is why so many parents get pushed out of the labour market, because it's such a struggle against illness and exhaustion in the under 5s, and especially in the under 3s.

This is definitely one for your union to take up.

You’re are definitely entitled into emergency leave to care for dependants.

I think that 3 absences - for any reason - is fair as a trigger for an absence interview. But not at automatic disciplinary measure.

I think you also have a responsibility to try to minimise the impact of your parental status on your employer though. You say that your husband can’t take time off at short notice as easily (I’d challenge that if you’re about to hit your 6 in 6!). But given that you’ve been off 2x in 3 months already and know that you can’t work tired - was he not the better choice to get up to the children in the night?

Your employer should not bear the brunt of your parental status more than his employer.

But do speak to your union - they should be all over a disciplinary measure being actioned for emergency dependants leave!

It seems to be a universal law that father of children views his attendance at work as farm more important than the mothers, there is always some "reason" for this. I have every sympathy for OP's situation but the fact that she has had 3 lots of time off in 3 months does lead me to suppose the children's father is not pulling his weight.

I think YABU to consider a sick day for tiredness though.

I don't! Real exhaustion caused by lack of sleep slows a person's reactions and can cause them to make unwise decisions. If this could put other people's lives at risk (sounds as if it could), I would want the OP to take a sick day.

OP, is there any chance you could sign up with an emergency nanny service? I'm sure they're v. expensive and I'm not sure about policies re. sick children, but it sounds as if you really need a back-up.

Are you a member of the union? If not, then join immediately.

It sounds like your employer has been getting away with fudging of the sickness policy and unpaid leave for dependents or emergencies because it arises much less often in male dominated industries.

If your sickness policy includes paid days for sickness, your absence can't be called sickness if they didn't pay you. How long were your absences? If longer than three days you should have received statutory sick pay.

But these shouldn't have been sick days. You were off work trying to make arrangements for someone else to care for your child. This wasn't possible as the children had contagious illnesses which exclude them from any childcare setting.

Does the disciplinary policy explicity say that any absences, either unpaid emergency dependency leave or sickness, contribute to the '3 occasions' rule? That's the only way in which you would be due a discplinary.

I don't think you're unreasonable to take a day off for exhaustion tbh - a day of rest could prevent you from becoming more ill in the near future.

Going forward, as well as more clarity from your employer, you need to find a way of your partner being involved when the children are ill. Yes, last minute absences are difficult for him, but they're also difficult for you hence your post.

Take care and hope that you can get some rest.

OP is your DP in charge of a meth lab?