AIBU to think Keir Starmer as Leader could win the December election?

[saltandvinegararethebest]

Could he win it? He is very popular and a different character to Corbyn. I think he would appeal to a lot of the electorate who are left leaning but unkeen on JC.

Absolutely. He is the best of the remaining Labour figures. Labour's only hope. It's quite sad that Corbyn cannot put party first and yet he says he cares for the masses.

You mean 'shame Corbyn can't put country first' surely.
He needs to go. Now.

He would need to ditch Abbott and McDonnell first.

#teamJess

@ionacat, but centerism hasn't fared well for years, eg Hilary, Biden, Change UK. The status quo isn't working. The policies of Labour, the Greens, and to a lesser extent, the SNP, will undoubtedly benefit people far more then Jo Swinson. Remember she voted for the Bedroom tax, and all austerity measures, and did nothing to stop arms sales. Austerity killed 140,000 according to the BMJ.
We need to appeal to reason and compassion, centerism has little of either.

PS, Iona is a beautiful island!

I agree. If there was a credible opposition to the Tories, they could win. Unfortunately JC will never be that credible opposition, and therefore the Labour party are as complicit in this mess as the Tories.

Lapidjewel I couldn't disagree more. The three centrists candidates/parties you referred to had issues of their own which ruled them out. Most of the people I know have no desire to be associated with what they consider to be the far end of either spectrum - hard right ERG or far left Momentum. Politics isn't a passion for them.

Obama won twice from the centre left. As did Tony Blair and David Cameron won from centre right (albeit propped up by centrists LD's). The centre ground is where you pick up swing voters and those that aren't following the nitty gritty of Westminster, won't read a manifesto and perhaps cynically don't think much will ever change but still want to put X in a box. Brexit has obviously changed things up but the boredom factor with the fairly bewildering Parliamentary processes shouldn't be overlooked.

If you are exited about politics and the possibility of change and you socialise with others that feel the same it might escape you that most people don't want to think about it and they won't touch anything that smacks of a revolution (even if it might benefit them - they won't have had the time or possibly the inclination to read the small print!)

I think there are 100,000's of votes being ignored. Write them off at your peril.

Just my opinion of course - but up until 10 years ago I would have been one of those people and I definitely wasn't alone.

Keith Stanmer for opposition candidate? Sure, fine. Anyone but Corbyn.

I don't know who Keith Stanmer is...but I choose him over Corbyn.

@Notonthestairs, hello. But the names you mentioned are when centerism worked.

Corbyn's or Sanders's policies are centre left.

Obama's cabinet was literally picked by Citybank and Goldman Sachs.

If u ask an average person, the polling shows the policies of Corbyn and Sanders are the most popular. The corporate media has to shift the debate onto other things, or personalities.

I understand. But the Labour Party for whatever reason are not getting that across to the voters I referred to. Plus however politics might have shifted but I don't think it alters people's perceptions of themselves as being a moderate and looking for that to be reflected back to them.
Not sure I'm making sense - will give it more thought. But overall I'd say
a change of leadership is necessary to move the goalposts.

I do not understand why many people on this thread think that Labour need to change, by moving towards the centre, to be electable. Labour should not change their core values just to get elected. It was for this reason that I never agreed with New Labour and it makes by blood boil to this day that Thatcher said that her greatest achievement was Tony Blair. She essentially changed Labour and she saw that as a positive thing for the success of her party.
Labour need to stay left, true to their roots. I do think Corbyn has run his course because so many people dislike him. I am hopeful that he can be replaced by someone on the left of the party and therefore Starmer isn't the man to do it. Blair II is NOT what Labour need and it is not what this country needs if we want to move away from neoliberalism.

Labour is a centre left party not a far left or socialist party we are not a socialist country and never have been or even close to it

Great news for the Tories for labour to stay to the left keeps them in power

And keeps people like yourself happy but Labour can the do fuck all to help those they claim to care so much for and labour have provided the poorest opposition in the last four years that many people can remember- Corbyn has been an utterly useless leader when the country desperately needed a strong opposition

We are a conservative country with a little c - you work with what you have got not what you dream to have

I never said that Labour were a socialist or far left party. They are, and always should be, left of centre but under Blair, they moved centre or even centre right, which should never have happened in my opinion.
I also disagree that this country will always be small c conservative and that to get into power the opposition should change themselves to fit that mould. I believe in authenticity and that times change. I believe that, as the tories continue to wreck this country, that a left of centre Labour Party with a more engaging leader than Corbyn could win an election. It is defeatist and cpunter-productive to think that only a centrist party will ever rule here.

@sevencontinents 'under Blair, they moved centre or even centre right, which should never have happened in my opinion.'

I wonder if all that really happened is that the gap that had been there throughout the 70/80s closed in terms of quality of life. So, for a generation that had it difficult growing up, they actually just got on an even keel in terms of secure housing/secure income/health needs.

I hear a lot of people on here say they have come from w/c backgrounds in the North who now are 'rich'. They have a home in London, secure income/savings, etc but that would not be considered 'rich' by a lot of Londoners as it would be normal for them and the range is so huge here.

Hope I have expressed that properly - it is not meant to be a criticism towards those who have moved rather an observation about how we evaluate our success across regional differences and then within London (for example) with borough/area differences.

Under Blair they moved more to the centre

They were not a right wing party - the taxes of that time, the money increase for NHS, increase in minimum national wage, working tax credits and child tax credits, sure start scheme are not right wing policies

Thatchers comments were meant to be controversial and somewhat amusing he also had a stronghold over the party which is something Thatcher always has

Labour had to move forward to appeal to voters they became a laughing stock under Michael Foot, they moved forward with Kinnock but it wasn’t enough and they will have to again after they finally rid themselves of Comrade Corbyn, Keir Starmer is more to the centre and so are other names that are more often than not mentioned as potential leader because most people know that the more left wing policies simply do not work

Ideology has always held Labour back and will continue to do so the way the party is now

There is the socialist Labour Party Corbyn and McDonnell should be representing them but of course he would never have had the political career of being a back bencher if he did

The Labour Party has gone too far left.
I'd prefer Starmer or Miliband - Jess Philips even better.
The Tory Party has been taken over by the ERG.
The only one I could - maybe - have 'considered' is Rory Stewart, or Ruth Davidson, both of whom seemed reasonably OK for a Tory.
Not keen on the current Lib Dem leader at all.
Doesn't leave much.

Corbyn sometimes speaks very well. But his tolerance of anti-semitism is shameful and he seems hooked on power over principles.

Labour under Corbyn is too far left for me too, his leadership dies impact policy so I am going to take it into account

I'd pretty much vote for any labour leader so long as it isn't Corbin. My vote will go elsewhere until he's gone.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed yes, that is what I was referring to. They really were only bringing a lot of families up to a basic standard of living with initiatives like surestart/NHS/min wage. There was a deficit there that needed closing up. I think they had to pull so far forward, out of what seems central ground when viewed nationally, just to compensate for generations that were lost in society.

Agree Op

Hmmmm. Yes, some the policies introduced by Blair such as min wage and surestart wouldn't be considered right wing. But remember, under Blair the rich got richer and the gap between rich and poor wider because his policies enabled that. That's why I said that he could be described as centre right upthread.
Enabling more inequality goes against core Labour values, hence why I believe a return to centrism is not the way forward for the Labour Party.

@sevencontinents yes, I do agree and that is certainly what I saw happening in London. It seemed to me at the time as though it was all about that but then I didn't need surestart/NHS/min wage/tax credits and didn't know that world. I thought he encouraged the rich/middle in order to get them to invest, share resources, etc that were then distributed out. Keeping the middle ground happy and opening up options to them was a way of keeping their attention off of the ground they were losing to the working class.

How would electing a slimy Blair part 2 change anything? He's all image with no substance. Yes, the London middle classes would like him because he would maintain the status quo which benefits them but the whole Blairite ideology is what paved the way for Brexit, the diminishing quality of life over the past 20 years for most people, the neglect of the north, the rampant neoliberalism that benefits very few, the crazy identity politics which Blair paved the way for. No thank you. That sounds like more dystopia!

Starmer would be good but I don't think labour would ever win. This is a very right wing country, I don't think that will ever change.

How would electing a slimy Blair part 2 change anything?

Because he might actually win an election. After all Blair (love him or loathe him) is the only Labour leader to win an election in the last 45 years.

Tired8grumpy
Agreed! And that's exactly why Thatcher liked him: he maintained the status quo for the few not the many.
I also disagree with the statement that this country will always be right wing. Nobody can predict the future. Few predicted the referendum result. Few predicted Trump's election to the presidency. Countries change over time.