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Trump and the Giant Impeachment. Trump thread 97

980 replies

AcrossthePond55 · 31/10/2019 18:23

With credit to Stephen Colbert (and Roald Dahl) for the title.

Vote taken, public House hearings to begin. Here we gooooooo!!!

OP posts:
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PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2019 11:50

Watched a bit of the hearing yesterday while I made dinner.

Phew! Fiona Hill is incisive, intelligent, articulate, precise, shows good recall, can think on her feet... Straight out of the same box as Sally Q Yates.

That key piece linked by Rousette is definitely worth watching. You can watch a slightly longer version here:

Fiona Hill's extraordinary answer distills what impeachment is about
amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/11/21/politics/fiona-hill-gordon-sondland-impeachment-trump/index.html

But yeah, this sums it up:
"He was being involved in a domestic political errand. And we were being involved in national security foreign policy. And those two things had just diverged"

lionheart · 22/11/2019 13:50

Yes, I was very much reminded of Sally Yates, even in terms of body language and certain expressions.

Thank goodness.

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2019 18:17

Just watched a documentary about the creation of the anti-Soros conspiracy theory. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008c6g

Very enlightening quote from the (now late) Republican consultant, Arthur Finkelstein, who took a job helping get far-right-winger Viktor Orban elected in Hungary.

“Arthur Finkelstein always said, 'You don't go against the Taliban, you go against Osama bin Laden. So it's about personalisation. Picking the perfect enemy and then go full on against that person so that people are actually scared of your opponent, and never talk about your own candidates policies, they don't matter at all.”

A technique now very familiar UK politics too.

TheNorthWestPawsage · 22/11/2019 18:32

‪ Randy returns twitter.com/RandyRainbow/status/1197940385751977985/video/1‬

lionheart · 22/11/2019 22:00

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-live-impeachment-hearing-fiona-hill-david-holmes-testimony-senate-trial-ivanka-a9213306.html

'Donald Trump gave a wild new interview to Fox and Friends on Friday morning, attacking the Democratic-led impeachment inquiry, spreading debunked conspiracy theories and complaining that ex-Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch never hung his portrait in the American embassy in Kiev.'

Lweji · 22/11/2019 22:42

Ah, the anti-Soros campaign. A favourite of our old friend claig, all the way back to 2016. Bless them.

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2019 23:00

Yeah, I hadn't realised it was an actual planned campaign, rather than yer bog-standard, pernicious, grassroots antisemitic conspiracy theory.Hmm

More fool me.

There's an article interviewing Finkelstein's political consultancy partner, about how they came up with it. Topically, they also worked for Bibi before getting the gig with Orban.

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hnsgrassegger/george-soros-conspiracy-finkelstein-birnbaum-orban-netanyahu

“It always helps rally the troops and rally a population” when the enemy has a face, Birnbaum explained. “Arthur always said that you did not fight against the Nazis but against Adolf Hitler. Not against al-Qaeda, but against Osama bin Laden.” Who could become that enemy in Hungary now that Orbán was in power — and wanted to stay there?
[...]
Against this backdrop, Finkelstein had an epiphany. What if the veil of the conspiracy were to be lifted and a shadowy figure appear, controlling everything? The puppet master. Someone who not only controlled the “big capital” but embodied it. A real person. A Hungarian. Strange, yet familiar.

That person was Soros, Finkelstein told Birnbaum.
[...]
There didn’t really seem to be a reason to turn against him in Hungary.

But Finkelstein and Birnbaum saw something in Soros that would make him the perfect enemy. There’s a long history of criticism of Soros, dating back to 1992, when Soros earned $1 billion overnight betting against the British pound. For many on the left, Soros was a vulture. But Soros used his sudden prominence to push for liberal ideas. He supported everything the right was against: climate protection, equality, the Clintons. He opposed the second Iraq War in 2003, even comparing George W. Bush to the Nazis, and became a major donor for the Democrats. He was soon a hate figure for the Republicans.

But there was more. Finkelstein and Birnbaum had expanded their work into exactly those countries where the Open Society Foundations was trying to build liberal local elites and civil rights movements: Ukraine, Romania, the Czech Republic, Macedonia, Albania. Birnbaum believed Soros stood for “a socialism that is wrong for these areas.” According to Birnbaum, Finkelstein was more practical about his opposition to Soros, whom he saw as simply a means to an end: “It wasn’t an emotional thing.”
[...]
Despite everything that followed, Birnbaum is proud of the campaign against Soros: “Soros was a perfect enemy. It was so obvious. It was the simplest of all products, you just had to pack it and market it.”

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2019 23:30

Ironically, the two political consultants were Jewish, and the one thing they didn't put on their list of reasons Soros would make a great bogeyman, was antisemitism.

Unlike their audience, which did. And which got a little larger than they'd planned.

I'm writing very calmly about this, but I actually want to scream.

Those consultants join the long list of people who have raised a mob – and promptly got all surprised when the mob doesn't just sit down again after trashing the mob-raiser's planned target. The graveyards are full of them.

And it's completely in keeping with other recent political projects, eg in the UK the deliberate revival by the government of the idea of undeserving poor and morally deserved destitution, in order to make cuts to disability benefits politically acceptable. I said at the time that once you start dehumanising people in order to get through one set of political objectives, that genie starts oozing out the bottle and you're not in charge of what happens next.

Cummings et al then tapped the fear and suffering caused by austerity to tip the vote for Brexit. Quelle surprise for lots of pro-austerity remainers.

If you decide to promote the politics of hate, you don't get to decide who gets hated next.

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2019 23:34

Sorry for the essay. As you can tell, I've been battering myself against a wall about this for a while.Angry

It's why one really, really can't play with the politics of hate or dehumanisation or scapegoating.

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2019 23:55

Sorry, ahem, what started that rant is that Trumpies' reluctance to discuss the actual content of Hill's testimony comes under Finkelstein's "never talk about your own candidate's policies".

PerkingFaintly · 22/11/2019 23:58

I love that the Orange One's top complaint about Yovanovitch is that she supposedly didn't hang his portrait.Grin

lionheart · 23/11/2019 00:09

For Trump, that counts as a sophisticated engagement with issues.

Dickensnovel · 23/11/2019 00:15

Sorry. Don't know how to post shorter link.

PerkingFaintly · 23/11/2019 00:24

Yep, spot on, Dickensnovel.

Lweji · 23/11/2019 08:37

Nunes under the Ukrainian bus too?

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/11/22/politics/nunes-vienna-trip-ukrainian-prosecutor-biden/index.html

Ps- shorter link: delete all to the right of the ? and the ?

Roussette · 23/11/2019 09:40

dickens that NewYorker novel sums it all up.

TheNorthWestPawsage · 23/11/2019 09:52

Impeach review: Neal Katyal makes strong case against Donald Trump
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/23/impeach-review-neal-katyal-case-against-donald-trump?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

lionheart · 23/11/2019 09:58

I need to read that book.