Don't know how to help my unhappy child

[Snugglemonster84]

My son is 9 and is unhappy. He has a wonderful life, a room full of toys, TV, xbox, clothes, food, a lovely warm home, a loving family, gets taken on lots of fun days out, holidays, been to disneyworld last year and going again next year. He has lots of friends. Goes to a nice school. Is idolised by grandparents. Is allowed to play out. He has good health. Goes to cubs. He's not naughty so is rarely told off for anything. I'm a sahm. His dad works hard to provide for us.
But he is still unhappy and also extremely ungrateful, and openly tells me so. He is so negative about everything. Like the typical Kevin teenager. Is this normal at age 9?
Any advice on how best to deal with it? He doesn't want to join in with family stuff anymore. He doesn't want to go out places or even see grandparents which he adored. He moans about absolutely everything unless we are doing something that he wants to do. He has no motivation for anything. Will not put any effort in to his school homework, reading, art projects etc. He's really clever so where he should be academically but he doesn't try so could be doing alot better.
Should I just leave him be, or speak to him about it? Should he be allowed to speak to us in such a negative manner or should he be punished? I feel so sad and I worry about him that he seems so sad about life when he has the perfect life! (I know the x box will be suggested as a problem, he has limited time on it at weekends only).
He has also had 6 weeks of counselling with a child therapist, who has worked with on things like not making mountains out of molehills etc but it's had no effect.

Your solutions are lazy.

Doing things for your child instead of teaching then the skills they need to do things for themselves is lazy.

You constantly expect shows of gratitude for cutting corners and not teaching your child to cope with life.

Stop it.

Take the piles of toys and TV and x box out of his room - that's lazy parenting.

Stop farming him out to too many after school activities - that's lazy parenting.

Deal with the child you have created by giving him the simplified, pated down structure he needs and showing him unconditional love.

You prefer his sibling. He doesn't owe you gratitude, you owe him an environment he can thrive in.

*pared down

You don't spoil a child with attention by the way, just with the wrong type of attention.

I usually think of being spoilt as being bought things all the time

Being spoilt has little to do with money and everything to do with a child getting their own way all the time, choices, decisions etc

@Snugglemonster84

We've tried giving him challenges, such as learning a musical instrument that he's shown interest in. He expects to be able to play it perfectly at the first try and can't accept that he can't. He will then refuse to try anymore.
If he's doing maths homework which he struggles with the most he just screams he's not doing it. I try to sit calmly with him in a calm environment because I know what he'll be like. He's got to make a model of our house for school. It needs to be in on Monday and he's refusing to do it because he has no interest he says. I know really it's because he thinks it won't be any good.

My ds is like this. He is an optimistic and happy boy generally, but very very hard on himself. The way we deal with it is to pick out the individual underlying skills he needs and build on them one by one, painstakingly slowly if need be. You can't just set a challenge... it doesn't work that way with a child who is anxious or discouraged. You've got to sit down and say, look, I've realized you hate not being an expert. We are now going to learn together how to be an expert...

Pick one thing, something fairly difficult and unusual maybe. Let's say ice skating. Watch skating videos; watch lessons; talk about body mechanics; book a lesson; talk about how shit hes going to feel during the first lesson; role play; talk about how you feel when you learn something new; praise him for making mistakes; ask him to make as many mistakes as possible; make a game of making mistakes; make mistakes with him; debrief him after every lesson; praise him for coping with failure; praise him for every little thing skill learned; commiserate when he is disappointed in himself; acknowledge his difficult feelings; teach him to breathe through frustration; teach him about different types of anger and frustration; hug him; persevere and I'm talking for years if need be. Do not be deterred. When he shouts and screams and cries, hold him and tell him you love him.and you are going to keep teaching him how to get through these feelings because you want him to be happy and be able to try things that scare him when he is a man. Go back to the coal face every single day.

It's not easy op, I identified this streak in my DS when he was 4 or 5, he is now 7 and it's an absolute slog, its exhausting. But they need so much support and no one else is going to teach him. The emotional skill set needed for dealing with perfectionism and anxiety is one that literally takes decades to learn I'm afraid.

I did this and continue to do this with piano and music theory. Also skiing, and skating, and, god help me, swimming. We did it with handwriting, honestly I thought we would kill each other, it was agony at times. When they say "parenting is hard" this is what they mean.

You've left it really late tbh but not too late. Start intervening as soon as you can x

I find it interesting that you say you're like this too OP. That seems to indicate that he may not be spoilt or depressed (assuming you don't consider yourself to be either). Maybe it's just that his disposition tends towards the negative, glass-half-empty viewpoint? In which case, it may be pointless trying to cure / fix this and better to focus on giving him tools and strategies to manage it. What do you feel has been helpful for this in your own experience?

I think kids learn a lot of behaviours by example. So mine tend to get on ok with learning instruments because they see me and dh at home practising music, making mistakes, trying again type stuff. Ds tends to get v upset when he practices if he makes a mistakes, angry, giving out, insisting on starting again. Lately I was playing something I had to go over a difficult bit several times. Ds was playing Lego next to me and I could see from his body language, he sort of arched his back, that he was paying attention. And the next time he practised he stayed calm when he made mistakes and just went over that bit again....Also, kids do like to see when their parents don’t know stuff/ can’t do stuff, I think it’s really reassuring to them. So if ds is struggling with his maths and I actually don’t know the wierd method they seem to teach for it, I say I don’t know how to do this let’s get dd to help!!! And I can see he calms down, and feels a bit bigger, like it’s confirming , this is hard, mum can’t do it either! Also I try to sympathise over it a bit and say yes this maths is so hard isn’t it....and just laughing and saying ‘I’ve no idea’ when they come out with random questions about leopards or whatever.

    With the being spoilt stuff. My ds does sometimes ask me in a worried way, am I spoilt, because he has lots of nice things. I always say spoilt is not about having nice things, it’s when you have nice things and you’re not nice to people. 

I would suggest starting up a conversation with ds about parenting, saying that you worry whether you’re doing it right because you’ve never done it before, he is your first child and it’s all unknown. If he’s interested you could talk about when you were a child and what that was like. And then say perhaps we might try to change the way it’s working, everyone needs to help with jobs ( clearing plates, setting table) and do as their told a bit more. If you sort of push a few changes through on a burst of enthusiasm?

And then I think you need to sort of redefine in your head what you class as naughty. And have a few responses ready. I have a few stock phrases, such as ‘whingeing is asking for the same thing lots of times’ ‘if you haven’t Got anything nice to say don’t say anything’ just sort of automatic responses to shut down in the moment nonsense without having to get too deep. It’s quite theatrical too, a sharp look or a raised voice when you don’t usually raise your voice have a big impact on mine.
Sorry if this is stating the obvious or stuff that you have already tried and doesn’t work. But I do agree with pps that you need to re-establish your authority before the teenage years kick in...

Sorry, that is really helpful, thank you (I'm not the OP but my DC is similar).

I like what rvby has said very much. Take up an activity together that’s new, and learn. Also, perhaps there’s too much emphasis on his happiness. I’d changed the list of things that made him happy in the day to include one thing that he did that made someone else happy.

I meant to add, there’s a very good interactive lesson on developing a growth mindset - it’s part of the BBC’s live lessons series, and is aimed at just your son’s age. www.bbc.co.uk/teach/growth-mindset-and-wellbeing-lesson/z4g4382

You need to take a big step back and let him be

Your child is his own person with his own personality. You need to accept this and stop trying to mould him into the personality you think he should be.

Gratitude - he didn't ask to be born. A child doesn't owe their parents!

Happiness - he is entitled to his feelings. If he wants to be a miserable bugger, let him crack on. Stop trying to make it better all the time.

Homework. Let him take ownership. Your job is to make sure he has the time, space and materials available a d he can ask for help with anything he doesn't understand. That's it. It's between him and the school.
If he doesn't do it then it's up to the school to discipline him. You will find he starts taking responsibility for it himself if the school punish him

CharityConundrum

I give him examples of how it can make people feel when they are on the receiving end of such behaviour. How even grown-ups can be hurt by things that children say and do but that I would rather know how he feels than him keeping it in. That it's ok to feel sad and angry, but that making other people feel sad and angry to make yourself feel better isn't ok and it doesn't work. Reminding him of how it feels when someone is kind to him, and would he like to make other people feel that way.

What a lovely way of thinking and teaching your child, you sound like a fantastic mum .

Boundaries are essential, you've got to be really truthful and bold with boundaries or he will never feel calm enough to sit down and learn to cope better. However, you've also got to learn how to teach him the skills he needs to cope better. He is a child. He can't work it out on his own.

RVBY

Can you please explain how to be bold and truthful with boundaries? I have an anxious and tantrum-prone ds, highly sensitive and emotional. Any tips on establishing boundaries with a sensitive and slightly pessimistic soul? He is 8

Trick take a look at the link I posted above on developing a growth mindset and overcoming anxiety. It’s aimed at primary school children,

www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/grownups/help-your-child-try-new-things

This might be good, for all of the children who are afraid of failure and don’t like attempting things - thereby missing out on the immense satisfaction of mastering something.

Look up Carole S. Dweck and her approach to Growth Mindset. It’s mostly about the differences in perception between people who understand the correlation between effort and results. You can teach this to others/a child. People with growth mindset do better and are happier in life, according to studies. It ties in with the behaviour of your son (and many others), who are essentially afraid of failure and end up feeling miserable because they’re not putting any part of themselves fully into anything.

daisypond

Ah, cross-posted. Growth mindset is such a huge deal for humans, but one that many people have never even really heard of. Once you start reading about it though, it’s a very simple to understand and fascinating concept.

Thanks for the further comments. In answer to a previous poster, he has been through cahms and discharged by them. They were the ones that referred him to therapy for anxiety.
I don't think some people have read my updates. People are suggesting getting outdoors, camping, den building etc. He is a member of boy scouts so does this alot with them. We also have a dog and go out regularly in the woods etc. He is an active child and spends alot of time outdoors.

Some people say put pressure on him and challenge him, others say don't do this as this increases his anxiety? Two opposite offers of advice. When we challenge him he crumbles under pressure to learn something such as an instrument or a new skill.

I constantly praise him for his achievements, especially when he's done something out of his comfort zone or has learnt a new skill. But others on here tell me don't do this as your putting expectations on the child and making them think they need to achieve things for your approval.
Parenting is difficult. I have never once said I favour my other child so I don't appreciate that. Just that she is easier as a different personality.

OP, I can sort of see why you say your DS is like you! Your latest post comes across as quite defensive / negative. Yes you've had some conflicting advice (not surprising as parenting isn't an exact science), but you've also had some good posts with empathy and suggestions. Did you find any of them useful?

LucileDuplessis yes I have found all the comments useful and have already put some into practice. His happy self journal has arrived this morning.
My post was to show how many people think they know the best answer but then another person will say the opposite.

@Snugglemonster84 Some people say put pressure on him and challenge him, others say don't do this as this increases his anxiety? Two opposite offers of advice. When we challenge him he crumbles under pressure to learn something such as an instrument or a new skill. Both pieces of advice are true, though. He doesn't need to be "challenged" so much as taught how to meet a challenge. There are dozens of emotional and practical skills in play when a human being works towards overcoming a challenge... he needs someone to help him work out which ones he's missing, and then help him learn them.

If you simply "challenge" him he may fall apart, yes, because the skills aren't there.
@TrickOrTreaty I think it's different for everyone but for my DS, it's being very empathetic but also very honest about the impact of his choices, and also realistic about how things are going to feel. My main phrases are -
"I know you don't want to. It's horrible to not know how to do something." (Pause and allow tears or rage)
"You do need to to this though. You know as well as I do, if you don't do this homework, [natural consequence]. Do you want that to happen?"
"OK, if we want to avoid that happening, we need to x"
"You're right, it's not going to feel good."
"You don't have to like it. You can hate it the whole time. I will be here with you."
"Let's breathe together before you try."
(Rugby tackle into a hug if needed)
"I know you don't want to, it's very hard for me to see you like this, but I'm the mum and I'm in charge of making sure you learn what you need to know."
(after he has tried, at which time he is usually relieved to get started)
"I want you to know it's so hard for me to upset you like this, it makes me feel xyz when this happens"
"How are you feeling about this?"

I also have a little chart of growth vs fixed mindset, drawn up as a comparison of Jedi vs. Sith qualities, we go over that a lot when he is freaking out and negative.

When it comes to interpersonal issues like being nasty or rude, my style of pulling him up is like this:
"Darling that's bad manners to say that."
"Do you know, folk feel XYZ when someone does something like that. Do you want people to feel that way?"
"How do you want people to feel?"
"OK, if that's what you want, I suggest you act like abc in that situation. It seems like you were feeling MNO but that's not what's important when it comes to responding to that situation, you can deal with those feelings later, at the time you need to abc."
And then debrief on the feelings and how to cope with them.

Hth. It's not one size fits all. My dc is very attuned to others and does give a fuck about how they feel, if that makes sense, but you need to find each child's currency tbh.

Yes but, we don’t know your son and we don’t have a massive amount of context, and even if we did you’d have different advice coming through.

The point that I felt Lucile was trying to make, is that you’ve honed in on the inaccuracy of advice, but haven’t really focused or engaged with any of the detailed and lengthy explanations that may actually apply. It’s almost - almost - looking like an excuse to avoid addressing your parenting as the issue because the advice is all so different so therefore can’t be right. I’m not picking it you, I would say this to a friend. Everyone finds it extremely hard to look at the depths of what they’re doing and how it impacts on their children, and nobody wants an unhappy child. But the advise here seems mostly quite sound. Forget that it’s not all uniform, it never will be, but there’s a gist to it all, isn’t there?

I totally agree that "happiness" can't be the goal in childhood, or ever really. The goals are, learning how to learn, learning how to empathize, learning how to predict consequences and avert them as needed, learning how to delay gratification. Those are the skills that make peace possible in a human being's heart. Happiness is a light froth quickly washed away, it's nothing.

My mantras with my DS are:
You don't have to like it (said with compassion).
You can hate it the whole time, I'm not leaving you while you hate it, I will stay with you.
Everything is OK (I have him repeat this when he's gone off on one and trying to calm down)
Everyone here loves you.

You've got to be so so honest and in there with the child, helping them name every bad feeling, breathing with them.

I really recommend every parent read The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk x

Again, agree with rvby it’s not to say don’t challenge them, challenge and pressure are actually two totally different things. You need to teach him how to respond and rise to a challenge, and how to balance out pressure. There are ways of doing this, many mentioned above, and including the Growth Mindset concept.

@TrickOrTreaty one other point - i often read here and elsewhere posts that imply that setting and keeping boundaries consists of telling a child hes naughty and then punishing him or giving him consequences.

My most important point on that is, if that's what a parent is doing to set boundaries, they are failing their child.

Children behave in the way they know how. Behaving consists of understanding consequences, using emotional skills, etc..

"Setting a boundary" therefore MUST consist of calling out consequences, naming the emotional skills needed to behave differently, empathizing with a child who is out of their depth and learning, and also attempting to teach the concepts and skills needed to behave differently.

"Telling them off" or naming the behaviour as simply "naughty" is parenting that shows no understanding of the human being who is trying his best and wants to learn but is frightened or clueless. It creates a child who feels frozen, misunderstood and like his parents dont even know him x

I constantly praise him for his achievements, especially when he's done something out of his comfort zone or has learnt a new skill. Praising achievements makes things worse because it can make the child think he’s only worthy of praise when he’s achieved something, thus reinforces perfectionist tendencies and fear of failure. Praise for effort and being out of comfort zone and trying and trying again is good, though, because these are things we can have control over.

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