Don't know how to help my unhappy child

[Snugglemonster84]

My son is 9 and is unhappy. He has a wonderful life, a room full of toys, TV, xbox, clothes, food, a lovely warm home, a loving family, gets taken on lots of fun days out, holidays, been to disneyworld last year and going again next year. He has lots of friends. Goes to a nice school. Is idolised by grandparents. Is allowed to play out. He has good health. Goes to cubs. He's not naughty so is rarely told off for anything. I'm a sahm. His dad works hard to provide for us.
But he is still unhappy and also extremely ungrateful, and openly tells me so. He is so negative about everything. Like the typical Kevin teenager. Is this normal at age 9?
Any advice on how best to deal with it? He doesn't want to join in with family stuff anymore. He doesn't want to go out places or even see grandparents which he adored. He moans about absolutely everything unless we are doing something that he wants to do. He has no motivation for anything. Will not put any effort in to his school homework, reading, art projects etc. He's really clever so where he should be academically but he doesn't try so could be doing alot better.
Should I just leave him be, or speak to him about it? Should he be allowed to speak to us in such a negative manner or should he be punished? I feel so sad and I worry about him that he seems so sad about life when he has the perfect life! (I know the x box will be suggested as a problem, he has limited time on it at weekends only).
He has also had 6 weeks of counselling with a child therapist, who has worked with on things like not making mountains out of molehills etc but it's had no effect.

Why don't you tell him that he needs to stay in the room and make it about the relative, and not about himself? Sorry, but that would make me very angry indeed with one of my children. It's not all about you, I'd be saying.

He isn't unhappy, he is 'never happy' which is entirely different. I agree with pps, the behaviour you have described IS naughty, and entitled, and downright rude. He is thoroughly spoiled, I am sorry I sound like I am criticizing you but that is not my intention, I have one of these myself, but I pull her up on it every time. You really need to start disciplining him more severely rather than fretting over him.

It sounds like the onset of puberty to me

Being spoilt is the parent's fault not the child's - they don't spoil themselves!

You don't discipline a child for being spoilt any more than you discipline a child for lacking a skill that you haven't taught them. You stop spoiling them!

He needs less of everything, not as a punishment but because he's being harmed by overwhelming amounts of everything - that's what being spoilt is, it's being harmed.

One sport so he can actually get good at it, not 3.

Cubs or beavers yes fine.

Technology out of his bedroom - into the communal space. All of it, TV especially.

Fewer presents but ones he actually wants - talk to relatives, ask them to just give vouchers or charity donations or money if that suits them better if he gets masses of "stuff" he doesn't want but is expected to "be grateful" for.

Stop with the big days out with complicated unspoken or spoken expectations of pretending to enjoy himself and be grateful - just do much shorter, free or cheap simpler things like walks, library visits, visits to very local cafe for a hot chocolate just for half an hour, and only require his attendance and silence if he's doesn't have anything nice or neutral to say - no trying to make a specific facial expression or fake happiness compulsory, simply not being obstructive on the most basic level.

Remove everything but furniture from his room and ask what he actually wants back in there - not as a punishment but because too much stuff is overwhelming.

Too much of everything creates awful pressure for some people - it's not not just the too much stuff materialism issue but more importantly overstimulation which creates a constant feeling of having demands put on the person - including the demand to be happy and grateful.

Strip it back - he needs less of everything and time to be bored, not as punishment but because too much of every type of everything from every direction all the time is harming him.

Obviously technology in his room is the epitome of this but not the only problem.

He wants to be in charge of everything. He likes to feel in control i think

That’s because the parents haven’t taken control and given him boundaries

Try before he hits the teen years

Snugglemonster you say your dad never gets pleasure from anything - that's a key indicator of clinical depression, which can also affect children and has a genetic element.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/children-depressed-signs/

Interesting OP because my DS1 can be a bit like this as well although it comes out in slightly different ways. Psychiatrist also says he is anxious. We are on a waiting list for therapy.

I'm intrigued by the comments on a theme of "he's spoiled by never having had to work for anything" - I suspect this to be DS1's problem a bit. He is naturally clever and finds school very easy. As a consequence any time anything is the slightest bit hard he just gives up. It is like pulling teeth with him trying to get him to do things he finds hard. I can probably count the amount of times we've managed it on one hand - riding a bike (but then later this was rejected when we got a new bike with gears that were hard), doing a swimming course - but he was so behind that we didn't enrol him in the next level, he learned with school in the end. A climbing course once - and I managed to say to him afterwards that was hard, wasn't it? But how do you feel now? But he won't go on the climbing course again. Or anything similar to it. A couple of specific pieces of homework that he struggled with. He's recently joined a Parkour club and is learning and practising moves there, which is great. Early days with that though.

And in fact, he does improve behaviour wise when he has a new challenge - starting primary and then secondary school rather than exhausting him like most children seemed to energise him and make him more content and more willing to attempt new things.

OK so the challenge is a theme. I'd been thinking of looking for things which challenge him for at home so I might go with that.

But HOW do you make them work at things when they are so avoidant of it? He has to muck in with the housework as well as having his own set tasks (cleaning room etc), that doesn't really make any difference (I suppose because it's not especially satisfying).

It's been the case since before school, BTW. He didn't walk until 16 months despite being perfectly capable of walking at 10 months and certainly by 13 months based on the accidental steps he was doing. And even then he would only walk when his hands were too full to crawl, until crawling became too cumbersome. I was astonished to see how DS2 approached crawling - with sheer rage and determination - and the utter joy he now gets from walking - because DS1 didn't do any of that, he only did it when it became the easiest option for him.

I think it'd be worth trying a different therapist, given what you say about your dad. You need the right match. Anxiety is poorly understood, I think.

I've read your thread with interest as my DD's a bit similar. In her case she needs massive amounts of physical exercise to keep her mood stable but she hates teams and organised activities. We are at the park, the pool and the clip and climb a lot!

Most of these children sound utterly miserable and crippled by fear of not being good enough - the advice to punish them for situations not of their making is astoundingly awful, as is the blatantly stated preference for siblings who find lie easier in many posts. This. Some of the posts in this thread are classic examples of the kind of systemic emotional abuse that the British empire inflicted on its people in order to prime them for the mass racism and slaughter needed to subjugate the colonies... this is how you bring up a sadist.

These children need structure and boundaries and less complex environments. I agree with this as well.

My exdh was like your ds OP, and his parents responded by being exasperated, punishing him, and then alternating with "trying not to upset him" which cut him off from his family more and more. He ended up with what is probably borderline personality disorder and is chronically unhappy.

Your ds is likely much more sensitive and anxious than the rest of your children. Learn about him. Stop trying to make him "perform" for you and instead work out what is happening in his head and heart. He sounds like a perfectionist, paralyzed by his emotions and unable to self-soothe or self-regulate. So he's essentially having tantrums and opting out of life to protect himself.

He can be taught skills to cope with the parts of himself that are causing him problems, but he won't learn them through punishment or being compared to his siblings. For example many folk with BPD seem to have started out as people whose brains detect disdain and disgust in others' faces when it isn't actually there... your DS may be like that. Do you think punishing him will help with that?

Educate yourself on trauma response and self regulation. Look into how Dialectical Behavioural Therapy works and see if you can apply some of the principles to your DS. Do an OU course on developmental psychology.

Boundaries are essential, you've got to be really truthful and bold with boundaries or he will never feel calm enough to sit down and learn to cope better. However, you've also got to learn how to teach him the skills he needs to cope better. He is a child. He can't work it out on his own.

Wont follow the rules of the game, does his own thing, huffs and puffs and moans, ever think he could just be a bit of a spoilt brat with an attitude problem

• Simplify everything. Provide structure.

Do not expect a child to be grateful for being essentially overwhelmed with too many things, too much stimulation, far too many demands and expectations. Stop overwhelming them.*

God I so agree with this. I see so many spoilt and badly behaved kids and I just think simplify things, pare things down. That's when kids are happiest but so many Parents don't seem to see or do this. And I don't mean this in a hippy simple life kind of way either.

I think @rvby has some good points, especially about being honest. I wonder whether he's getting more and more anxious because he has these unbearable feelings (anger etc) that he can sense you are afraid of (cos you don't want to upset him) and are thus not acknowledging face on? This can be really scary for kids because they think that a) there is something really wrong with them for feeling normal emotions and b) their parents won't be able to help or find them unbearable too.

I would name the emotion you see him having, and verbalise that it must be hard to be feeling that way, but decide a fair boundary and stick like glue to it. So the second he starts showing signs of anger or upset say directly 'I can see you're upset. Is is because....? Can you tell me more?' Whatever he answers, let him say it - even if it's something tough to hear. Say 'that sounds really hard/I'm sorry you're feeling that way' etc. Your boundary comes in where if he insults or hurts you, you say 'I am here to help you with your insert feeling but I can't let you hurt me.'

It might also be useful to give him ways to express anger that aren't lashing out at you either verbally or physically - so he can feel and express the feeling - and then let him know you'll be ready to cuddle and talk whenever he is. I mean that last part as a genuine offer, not an 'I won't engage with you til you're calm' thing. The aim is to show him you can contain his feelings and will be there to guide him through them, if that makes sense.

I usually think of being spoilt as being bought things all the time. He only has things birthdays and Xmas. No other time. I suppose he is spoilt by attention from us. Whenever he speaks badly to us etc he is sent to his room, treats withdrawn etc. He just says he's not bothered and that when he gets to 18 he's going to move away from us all and not tell us where he lives so he can do what he wants in his own house!

His sister is treated and brought up the same way as him but they are polar opposites. She is much happier, calmer, contented. Wants to achieve things and work hard. This makes him worse as I think he thinks she's the favourite which is not true. He moans at us that we never tell her off or punish her but she doesn't do anything that requires that. It's very difficult.

He is just the same as a pp who described her child as unwilling to put effort in to things. How do you make them?
I don't know the answer. We've tried giving him challenges, such as learning a musical instrument that he's shown interest in. He expects to be able to play it perfectly at the first try and can't accept that he can't. He will then refuse to try anymore.
If he's doing maths homework which he struggles with the most he just screams he's not doing it. I try to sit calmly with him in a calm environment because I know what he'll be like. He's got to make a model of our house for school. It needs to be in on Monday and he's refusing to do it because he has no interest he says. I know really it's because he thinks it won't be any good. He's nagging his dad to make it for him. If he did make it for him he wouldn't show any gratitude so we say no. And he'd rather go into school with nothing than give him something he's tried to make himself

He sounds spoilt and as if he doesn't have established boundaries. Refusing to do his homework should be seen as wholly unacceptable. He might not be a "naughty" child, but it seems as if he's became used to doing the bare minimum and getting away with it. People tend to be less happy when they adopt this attitude. There's no pride in his own work, etc.

I can imagine how anxiety manifests as not wanting to make an effort. But there a severely life limiting problem.

The idea if a child refusing to stay on a room while someone opens presents is pretty horrible. As is him saying he wants to move away .

Have you thought of starting with therapy for yourself and examining your own childhood and how it might have impacted (not might..how it has) impacted your parenting ?

He isn't created out of a vortex and children develop personalities as part of a dynamic with the family around them

There is an interesting book

I think it's called parenting the whole brain child.

And the related book by same author - parenting from the inside out

Hi op, I’ve read the full thread and agree with a lot of what has been said but I believe your ds needs a CAMHS referral to investigate what is really going on. Your GP can refer you to them though there is often quite a wait. They are excellent.

My 16yr old is waiting to see them again due to severe anxiety but we have seen them in the past as he has Aspergers and was assessed by them as part of the diagnosis process. They also helped when he was being bullied in year 7 and had to move schools.

MH is so important as you know and sadly, lots of our children are suffering from poor MH and need support. I hope I haven’t offended you by suggesting this but I don’t think you have anything to lose here

It sounds like he needs to build his emotional resilience given how he responds to tasks that he cannot take to immediately. Are there any forest schools in your area? Camping and a sense of self-sufficiency through orienteering, basic cooking, building dens, putting up a tent might help give him a sense of perseverance and achievement.

IMO spoiling kids isn't really to do with giving them lots of toys and stuff.

It's about not teaching them that some forms of behaviour are unacceptable, that the world doesn't revolve around them, and that sometimes you have to do things even when you don't want to. And without whingeing. Because that's part of life.

A kid who isn't taught these things isn't just spoilt, they're unhappy.

I agree with the poster who suggests building his resilience. You can google tips for this (I did, to help my kids).

Absolutely World

He needs to get out of his comfort zone and do some focussing on real survival. Getting himself everything he needs, learning some self reliance and independence, and survival skills.

If hes that bright and not properly channelled or challenged it can be a misery. He definitely doesn't sound inspired by his school work, and not engaged with it. It's boring and his life uninteresting.

He needs to get outdoors, and away from the heavily cloistered environment.

Please get him involved in some form of activity building fires, cooking on them, sleeping outside keeping warm etc.

Kids don't need everything, they need to aspire to things, and have boundaries.

Whats he got to aspire to if he has everything already. Challenge his entitled attitude at every turn, or come teens years lookout

He never does anything nice for anyone else he even refuses now such things as writing cards for relatives. Won't stay in the room if another family member is opening birthday gifts for example.

What does he say if you ask him why? I can understand that it's hard to discipline him about the presents thing or example as you don't want a showdown on someone else's birthday, but if you ask him afterwards, can he explain it? Does he talk about his feelings when he's calmed down? Can he express himself once the emotion has passed, or it is a lot of 'I don't know' about why he did x or y?

My son can tend towards the negative, and I worry about him because he takes after me and I was the classic angsty teen who never felt they could open up and I never felt comfortable talking about my feelings. But I have found that it can help to talk to him, even at him sometimes. I lie on his bed and we both look at the ceiling and I am honest with him. I tell him that I'm worried that he seems unhappy, that I'm worried that I don't know how to help him, that I used to feel like I think he does and that I want to try and help avoid him feeling like that if I can.

I give him examples of how it can make people feel when they are on the receiving end of such behaviour. How even grown-ups can be hurt by things that children say and do but that I would rather know how he feels than him keeping it in. That it's ok to feel sad and angry, but that making other people feel sad and angry to make yourself feel better isn't ok and it doesn't work. Reminding him of how it feels when someone is kind to him, and would he like to make other people feel that way.

We have even gone into what happens when you die and how you live on in people's memories and what we want our legacy to be, whether we want them to remember how kind we were and think about the times we have made them feel good (TBF that one was in context, not really something I introduced in a 'chat' but his responses were interesting and gave me some insight into how he thinks about himself). All that stuff, more, anything that pops into my head and sometimes he doesn't say anything, but I know it goes in and I have seen results when I have referred to something I've said before and noticed that he's acknowledged it and behaved differently.

I write him notes, telling him I'm proud because if I say it in the moment he can be negative about it, but I feel that if he has it in writing, he might look at it another time and it might help him feel better about himself.

I'm not pretending to have any anwers - these are the things I have done and I have seen some results, so I am sharing in the hope that something helps you and your son. I don't think there are any easy answers, and I don't think it's as simple as doing something or not and fixing it all. You know him, you have time to try and let him know that you are trying and that you want to help him. Good luck.

I think you might find it helpful to read ‘The Explosive Child’ by Ross Greene, given how he is withdrawn at times but in your own words ‘flies off the handle’. It will help you gain his perspective and might help you to do some problem solving with him.

Your child is frightened, miserable and cripplingly anxious about not being good enough - give up with the gratitude shit. He doesn't owe you gratitude - you did this to him. Sorry to be so blunt but you won't listen and insist on blaming a still small child for your parenting failure.

Parent the child you have not the child you think you want and stop expecting gratitude for damaging him.