Jeremy Corbyn

[salcombebabe]

I see so many posters saying they won’t vote for Labour as they don’t like Jeremy Corbyn - why? If the Labour policies are good then why not vote for those rather than the leader?

Give over Bert. If I attended KKK meetings, denied images of Golliwogs and other offensive stereotypes were racist, and repeatedly praised people who were racist, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to call me a racist. Christ, you think it's reasonable to call people racist for finding Meghan Markle annoying! Not so much when it comes to Jews though hey?

Somehow I don’t think you’ll get much of a coherent response to your fairly devastating points, GlitchStitch!

Probably because there is no answer that doesn’t look really, really bad.

There's a lot of conjecture on here about Corbyn. I'm struggling to see how conjecture beats FACTS?

Facts like the Tory govt has indirectly caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people including vulnerable and disabled through its austerity measures.

Has virtually destroyed the state education system while allowing private schools to remain charities.

Has failed to sort out tax avoidance / evasion among the rich.

Has underfunded (or sold off) the NHS meaning waiting times have gone up. Which leads to more deaths.

I'm not a big Corbyn fan and I think Labour have made mistakes but I'd rather have a govt who I think will try to fix the issues above rather than cause them, i.e. NOT the Tories with blood on their hands.

Corbyn will absolutely make it more attractive to not work. I doubt even he would dispute this, he just wouldn't word it as such, it would be more like 'restoring dignity to those in search of work'.

I think it’s very complicated. I’m in no doubt that there is anti Semitism in the Labour Party. We live in an anti Semitic society. But politicians have, by definition, to associate with unpleasant people and organisations. Organisations like Sinn Fein that at the extreme end merge into the IRA. Does that mean you shouldn’t talk to Sinn Fein? Maybe it does- I don’t know. But it seems a bit counter productive to me- after all, talking to Sinn Fein led to the GFA. (I’m not saying that Corbyn was responsible for the GFA, by the way- I’m talking more generally)

Fish - how do the Israelis declare themselves morally superior? I think they let the facts speak for themselves - free trade unions, thriving LGBT scene, decent social security system, functioning courts, high life expectancy for Arabs as well as Jews.

And we don't send the Israelis aid at all. We do send aid to the Palestinian Authority, some of which is used to reward those who kill UK citizens....

How do people feel about the Conservative Friends of Israel being a significant lobby group and donor to the Tory Party?

What do Corbyn supporters think of the fact that he invited IRA supporters into Parliament shortly two weeks after the Brighton bombing?

Of course it was controversial but Corbyn says open dialogue was important to resolving the conflict. That's why the Tory government under Thatcher was also in talks with Sinn Fein / IRA during the same time, just behind closed doors...

Oh and while we're making links between politicians and terrorism, I'm sure you're aware the DUP has DIRECT terrorist links, and that the Tories effectively going into coalition with them to benefit politically disgusts you much more?

@nanbread

Crikey. When you mentioned 'FACTS' it was as if you were about to proffer some.

You've really taken the here.

Corbyn will absolutely make it more attractive to not work.

I don't think that's the case, but frankly I'd rather that than children starving and eating out of bins because austerity and universal credit means their family has no food. I'd rather than than working families having to use food and baby banks to get by. I'd rather that than disabled people being found "fit to work" then dying weeks later.

Wouldn't you?

I think it’s very complicated. I’m in no doubt that there is anti Semitism in the Labour Party. We live in an anti Semitic society.

We live in an antisemitic society where people pretend that blatant antisemitism doesn't exist. Mostly people who identify as left-wing, as it happens. It isn't really that complicated.

How do people feel about the Conservative Friends of Israel being a significant lobby group and donor to the Tory Party?

I'm fine with that. Jews are allowed to disagree with me on political matters. It would be a bit antisemitic to actually see this as an issue.

Corbyn talking to Republicans was in pursuance of peace.

Tories giving vast amounts of money to the DUP was in order to try to keep a crumbling Tory self-interested majority in power.

The two are not even remotely comparable.

foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/09/dont-underestimate-corbyns-pet-stalinist/
Jeremy is advised by Seamus Milne and Boris by Dominic Cummings.
It's all a bit rotten.

Seeing Corbyn repeatedly make an absolute hash of the total electoral gift austerity, Brexit, May and Johnson should be, makes me weep for for the days of principled AND effective Labour leadership. They need not be mutually exclusive.

A Robin Cook or a John Smith would have torn through this Tory party. Tony Blair in his hey day wouldn't have even broken a sweat (I despair over Iraq that has so discredited his legacy).

Corbyn is Seumas Milne's stooge - and Milne is a man who is so anti-western, so irredeemably "anti-imperialist", that he'd literally take the side of anyone who wasn't western, in any conflict.

The fact that Boris Johnson is also a disaster in no way absolves Labour of the urgency of tossing this inept ideologue overboard. Principled AND effective alternatives are available.

“ I'm fine with that. Jews are allowed to disagree with me on political matters. It would be a bit antisemitic to actually see this as an issue.”

So you are conflating “Jews” and “Israel”?

It's all very entertaining but Corbyn isn't going to get a shoe in the door at number eleven, so entertainment is all it's ever going to be.

I don't think the bookies will have got it far wrong...

So you are conflating “Jews” and “Israel”?

No, because the Conservative Friends of Israel are not Israelis; they’re British. They’re mostly not even Jewish, anyway.

@ JohnRokesmith you said “Jews are allowed to disagree with me on political matters” when discussing the Conservative Friends of Israel. That seems to me to be to entirely conflate “Jews” and “Israel”...

Other genocidal regimes, like China or Burma, they don't hide who they are and don't cry discrimination when called out.

Say what now?

Corbyn will absolutely make it more attractive to not work.

I don't think that's the case, but frankly I'd rather that than children starving and eating out of bins because austerity and universal credit means their family has no food. I'd rather than than working families having to use food and baby banks to get by. I'd rather that than disabled people being found "fit to work" then dying weeks later.

I disagree with your characterisation of the current situation. I realise that Momentum has been busy scouring data, looking for ways to directly link austerity with death, but they've not been successful.

How do people feel about the Conservative Friends of Israel being a significant lobby group and donor to the Tory Party?

For me, the same as every other lobby group; I accept that they'll always exist, but would expect complete transparency as the price of access. Ditto the funding - I'd prefer that no party accepted their often filthy money, but if it's going to happen then clarity's a sine qua non

Too bad that wishing for either's a non starter among the cesspool of politics

I honestly don’t think the CFI is the same as any other lobby group. A significant majority of Conservative MPs are members, it makes huge donations to Party funds and is open in its alliance with Likud. It’s not like the Countryside Alliance or something.....

@EntropyRising please can you tell me what exactly you are disagreeing with?

There's loads of data on food bank and baby bank usage, direct from the banks themselves, to show how use has increased, how universal credit is a massive factor, and how a high percentage of users are in work.

There is also a LOT of data on the rising number of children living in poverty in this country, and/or are homeless, and how families / children are going hungry. Plus vast amounts of anecdata from teachers describing situations like those in my previous post.

There is also a correlation between austerity being introduced and deaths rising.

So it isn't yet possible to categorically prove it's the direct cause.

Is that really how low you're willing to set the bar?

"Oh, even though there seems to be a significant correlation between austerity and increased deaths, and children are going hungry, and poverty is on the increase, and working people don't have enough to feed or clothe their families, we can't directly prove that people are literally dying as a result of austerity so let's keep doing what we're doing!"

Not from Momentum, though.

I don't think it matters if they're different or not, Bertrand; there'll always be those with more members / money / whatever than others, and some will always cry "unfair" about whatever groups they happen not to favour. My point, though, was that clarity should be expected of them all, and that includes clarity on membership / organisation

I know it's a hopeless wish, but we can't even begin to deal with these things unless we know what we're dealing with ... and ATM we're very far from that

Of course the Tories have not caused deaths any more than Corbyn is anti semitic.

However Labour have some very radical policies which will have a direct adverse impact on many voters. Those are the things people need to look at in both political parties. Mrs May may have given us the best environmental targets in teh EU but I would pick your based not on green issues or Israel but on the basis of the pound in your pocket.