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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To recommend sleep training to a friend?

125 replies

Pretendbookworm · 29/10/2019 09:44

I have a LB who is 3.5 (who I will call E) and my friend has LB who is 2.5 (I will call C).

So my friend messaged me to say that her boy C was awake between midnight-4 because he wouldn’t sleep. She had spent the entire time holding him in every position possible but he wouldn’t settle and wasn’t happy to be put down and she was tired. She’s due to have a baby soon.

So I said well sounds like it’s time to start sleep training, at some point you’ve got to say it’s time for bed and not hold them all night because at some point its like any other defiant behaviour or tantrum and even at that age they can try to take the mick. I said that for example my boy E wanted me to stay in his bed all night but after some cuddles I said no and we kept going in to repeat time for bed. She said “sleep training is not for us but each to their own.”

I said “sleep training gets a bad rap because people do it with little babies but at some point everyone has to start being firmer, sometimes it’s like any other tantrum”. I also said well everyone does draw the line somewhere at some point. Then she said “I am not a pushover but I will not do sleep training. I won’t do it.”

Then (it’s a group chat) another friend joins in saying that toddlers aren’t robots and need cuddles sometimes and they won’t do it either. I said that I do cuddle him but the difference is I don’t stay in the room for long.

I think they’ve got no understanding of what sleep training is and have completely dismissed me with prejudice. I only persisted because I feel that as soon as I said sleep training she stopped listening to what is generally regarded as common sense advice for getting toddlers/pre schoolers to sleep.

I’m horrified with how this conversation has gone. I only persisted as I feel I was dismissed abruptly and unfairly. AIBU?

OP posts:

Elbowedout · 29/10/2019 22:41

Well said @hazeyjane
I had a very different style of parenting to my best friend when our children were babies/toddlers. I was very much into AP and I breastfed til self weaning. She FF from birth and followed the routine advocated by a well known maternity nurse. But we still cried on each other's shoulders when we were have shitty times. I am sure she was thinking "your baby would be so much more contented if you followed a strict routine" at times, because I was sometimes thinking the opposite, but neither of us ever lambasted the other. We both knew where we stood but we respected each other enough to agree to disagree.

JacquesHammer · 29/10/2019 22:42

Sleep training isn’t fun or easy for people and it’s generally not undertaken lightly. You can’t expect the benefits if you won’t even countenance the action

So can I assume if someone is undertaking sleeping training, they’re not allowed to complain about how hard it is?

I prefer to treat my friends with a bit more empathy, my sympathy isn’t conditional on their behaviour!

LaurieMarlow · 29/10/2019 22:43

So can I assume if someone is undertaking sleeping training, they’re not allowed to complain about how hard it is?

Well I didn’t complain myself, no.

JacquesHammer · 29/10/2019 22:46

Well I didn’t complain myself, no

Ah well as long as you didn’t then

Must make for some very rigid friendships though, I don’t envy you!

LaurieMarlow · 29/10/2019 22:48

Must make for some very rigid friendships though, I don’t envy you!

I assure you I haven’t lost friends over it

JacquesHammer · 29/10/2019 22:53

I assure you I haven’t lost friends over it

Don’t worry. All your friends wouldn’t be able to tell you if there was an issue anyway. Not on the Acceptable Topics List.

I still find conditional sympathy certainly with regards to parenting utterly bizarre! I mean I never told my friends “suck it up, your choice” when they were finding doing various forms of sleep training hard because that would be unkind.

LaurieMarlow · 29/10/2019 22:55

I mean I never told my friends “suck it up, your choice” when they were finding doing various forms of sleep training hard because that would be unkind.

I didn’t say anything, just swiftly changed the subject.

BertieBotts · 29/10/2019 22:59

God why is sleep so emotional anyway?

Like someone above suggested that the term "sleep training" is too emotive and OP should have used phrases like "good routine" or "healthy sleep habits" instead. Why does that get my hackles up as well? Possibly the insinuation that what I'm doing now is "bad" and/or "unhealthy", which it's neither.

I don't think AP type parents who "complain" that their child isn't sleeping through are actually expecting their children to already be doing these things, nor insinuating that parents of sleeping children haven't done anything to encourage this. (Although you do get the rare unicorn baby that does...) I think they are probably just having a moan, like you might about many other aspects of parenting. And actually they do get there in the end, not magic, just development.

Don't you ever moan about things you wouldn't try to change yet because you believe it is too early and would be pointless? Children go through lots of annoying phases as they grow up.

JacquesHammer · 29/10/2019 22:59

I didn’t say anything, just swiftly changed the subject

Still rather unkind IMO. A gentle “sorry you’re struggling” isn’t too onerous however one feels about their parenting.

I just genuinely can’t fathom that type of friendship that is conditional on things being done your way or it can’t be discussed. Very alien to me.

MsTSwift · 29/10/2019 23:05

It’s frustrating when you see exhausted parents and child not getting enough sleep though. Bil and sil and friends of ours still playing musical beds with nt smart school age kids. No way would we put up with that. Parenting is what you can bear some parents tolerance goes further than others. When dear nephew stays with my rather strict in laws he sleeps beautifully through the night...appears they are being played

AlexaShutUp · 29/10/2019 23:33

There are so many judgemental comments on this thread. OP, it was fine to suggest sleep training, but you should have backed off when your friend indicated that it wasn't for her. It was disrespectful to assume that you were right and she was wrong or somehow lacking in understanding. I'm sure she knows what sleep training is, she just doesn't want to do it. And she is entitled to that point of view.

I chose not to do any form of sleep training with my dd. We had a few tough years but I always knew it was only temporary. Looking back now, I'm really glad that I didn't. She learnt to get herself off to sleep in the end, she just did it in her own time.

Ultimately, it's about what kind of parent you want to be. There is no right or wrong answer to this, we all have to go with our instincts. It's rather smug to assume that you have got the only right approach.

formerbabe · 30/10/2019 07:27

Yes I agree totally with this. So many threads on here where parents are still spending hours putting their school age children to bed...it's ridiculous.

MrMumble · 30/10/2019 07:36

You weren't asked for advice, yet you offered it.. strike 1.
You were told 'no thankyou' to that unsolicited advice and you carried on pushing it - strike 2.
You've assumed she doesn't understand what you were advising - strike 3.

This ^^

Also, according to your OP she said that last night he didn't sleep...of course you know her and her DS better than me, and maybe it's every night but on the other hand maybe he was ill, or uncomfortable, or something was wrong. Bit much to go straight in with the sleep training talk imo.

SpiderCharlotte · 30/10/2019 07:37

I just genuinely can’t fathom that type of friendship that is conditional on things being done your way or it can’t be discussed. Very alien to me.

Absolutely agree. This is not what I would call a friendship.

MrMumble · 30/10/2019 07:38

Also, I agree with JacquesHammer, would be happy for my friends to moan about anything, no matter how they choose to parent. Funny, my DM is a bit like that, you're not allowed to complain about anything unless she can offer advice and try to solve it. It's very lonely tbh, sometimes you do just need to vent!

potatoeseverywherepot · 30/10/2019 07:43

And there are countless methods to teach all of the above, not one “correct” method.

Agreed, but sleep training is not one method. It is several.

JacquesHammer · 30/10/2019 07:45

Agreed, but sleep training is not one method. It is several

I think that’s covered in “countless”

CuckooCuckooClock · 30/10/2019 07:59

I feel really sorry for people who can’t have a whinge to their friends without judgement. What sort of friendship is that?!
I also feel sorry for dc who have parents who are seemingly insensitive to them.

limpingparrot · 30/10/2019 08:14

I’m a practical sort of person and like a solution to a problem, but I try my best to bite my tongue and just listen to people moaning in baby groups. Sometimes people just need to vent, and you do not carry on giving advice after they say they don’t want it. You’re not the one who’s up 4 hours, so just leave them to it.

Witchinaditch · 30/10/2019 08:41

I agree with your view and I think sleep training is a good idea but you shouldn’t have kept pushing it.. once she said no just say ok that’s up to her to stay up all night! You can lead a horse to water...

formerbabe · 30/10/2019 11:45

The thing is sometimes people like to moan but they're not looked for advice and sometimes people hear them moan and think they are asking for advice. When I am moaning, my oh will always try to offer solutions, he doesn't understand that I'm just venting!

WaterAndTrees · 01/11/2019 21:41

Jacqueshammer totally agree.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 02/11/2019 12:51

I am not going to question anyone's approach to parenting. Unless, that is, they constantly whinge about having to sit for 2 hrs each evening while their 3 yr old falls asleep, or go in several times a night.

There are two approaches to children accepting sleeping on their own at night. One is to wait until they want to (if we took this approach with things like diet & potty training, some children could be eating a very poor diet and soiling themselves well into their school years. Children's wants do not always align with their needs).

The other approach involves using one of several methods (some more gentle than others) to teach the child that they can fall asleep without a parent in the room.

All of these are "sleep training". It is not limited to controlled crying or cry it out. Almost no one leaves children crying for hours. Most do a gradual approach.

In my experience, all approaches (gradual or other) are easier when the child is younger and habits are less established. I find that the people most vehemently against sleep training are those who have left it until a child is 2 or 3 & very change resistant, tried it briefly and found it extremely difficult. These people usually refuse to accept that the same approaches can work quickly with little fuss with a much younger child.

Original poster

Pretendbookworm · 03/11/2019 07:43

Sorry it took me so long to reply.

So I apologised to the friend for pushing it, but I did say I felt like she dismissed it very quickly when I thought we could talk about these things. She said she did dismiss it quickly but because we had talked about it before and she didn’t want to again. That’s fine I said so we’re good.

Some more background info: Yes, she does complain about having to hold him for 1-2 hours every night fairly often. Usually a few times a month, especially once she was getting big with the pregnancy. But whenever any of us in the group chat suggest anything she says she’s happy with the routine, but then I have to be sympathetic all the time when she complains so it gets a bit wearing. Will take some people’s advice on here and just respond minimally next time.

OP posts:

CactusAndCacti · 03/11/2019 10:16

Pleased you managed to talk it over with her. Just keep it at a minimum, acknowledge it is tough, but just leave it that. Sometimes people just want a rant.

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