To tell DB that we don't want to go on holiday with DSIL's parents

[AwkwardHols]

Family tree attached. Names changed obviously!

I've never been very close to DB as he was always pretty horrible to me growing up (constantly calling me fat etc) and I've never really connected with DSIL. But my DD and DN we're both born within a month of each other and I'm keen to try and make the best of whatever relationship we can have. I suspect they both might be only children so it would be nice to have each other.

DB and DSIL sometimes went on family holidays before they were married together with DM, DF, SILM and SILF. DM and DF didn't really like this as they don't like SILM, but they did it a couple of times for DB and DSIL's sake. At DB and DSIL's wedding, DM had an almighty fallout with SILM. DM was trying to hide it so I don't think DB, DSIL and even SILM realise how upset DM is. I don't think DM wants to ever see SILM again (and if they do I reckon she'll need a good decade or two to have passed).

DB and DSIL have suggested a holiday next summer with them, DM, DF, SILM, SILF, me and DH as well as DD and DN of course. DM quickly came up with an excuse on behalf of her and DF why they can't to the place suggested and hasn't revealed that she doesn't want to go anywhere because she hates SILM. I have said that we can't make it this year either. I'm not particularly keen on SILM and DH said he wouldn't go as he finds DSIL and her whole family really weird and difficult.

So here's the thing: I'd quite like to do a family holiday in a couple of years' time with all of our family (the Smiths). I'd like to include our sisters, who weren't included in this suggested holiday. The problem is that because there has been this precedent established of SILM and SILF coming on joint family holidays with us Smiths, I think DB and DSIL (and probably SILM?) will have an expectation that they should be invited too. If we book a hotel with spare rooms I'm sure they will end up gatecrashing, and if we suggest booking a cottage or something they will suggest that we find one with enough space for SILM and SILF.

The obvious solution seems to me to have a very quiet word with DB that DM doesn't like SILM and won't go on anymore holidays with her, but would it be reasonable to do this given that DM is hiding it? It would save DM from having to come up with excuses in the future and I know that she loves the idea of a "Smith" family holiday without the "Jones's" apart from DSIL. I think DB would keep it quiet although may have to tell DSIL I guess and that could drive a wedge between DM and DSIL (not that they are particularly close).

I'm totally lost but "that's not going to work" with "this year" added if you think it might work in the future, is enough, surely?

TLDR: Would it be unreasonable to tell DB that DM hates DSIL's mother and won't come on any more holidays with her? This might be necessary because DB and DSIL have an expectation of joint holidays with both sets of parents.

No don’t tell your brother about your mum not liking sis in laws mum.Its none of your business and when the fallout happens you will end up taking all the blame.Just leave it.

I’d stay out of the DM hates DSIL’s mother conversation. No good will come of it. No problem with suggesting a holiday for your family only - this will not include DSIL’s parents

What you describe is unusual. Your dm needs to grow a pair and say that she doesn't want to go on holidays with sil family. It isn't the norm. Simple as. She needs to say it to her son. No need to reference any arguement.

Just find a house big enough for your family one year.....invite the others to come - explain due to costs you would need all the family to agree. But make sure there isn't an extra room for sil"s parents.

Does your mum want you to say something? You would drop her right in it...and you and your husband aren’t fans either so it’s like you’re throwing her under the bus somewhat.

Do not tell your brother that, it's none of your business.

Why on earth do you want to go on holiday with your brother when he was so nasty to you growing up?

If you really do want to invite them just make it clear that it's Smith family only and it's up to them whether or not they want to come without the Jones parents.

Its unusual for families to mix like this unless they really really get on. How can anyone feel you are all close enough for this?
Just suggest a Smith only family and say from the outset, smith only please.

No, don't out your mother. She's chosen her way of dealing with it. You risk her being mightily pissed off with you.

Just say "we want a Smiths holiday, just this once. You go with the Jones all the time, you can go with them another time" and hold firm.

Why is it any of your business? Your mum is an adult and can sort out her own issues. She has already avoided a holiday this year and will no doubt continue to avoid them.
You don't want to go on holidays with sil's family so don't go.
When, in a few years, you want to do a family holiday the precedent will already be broken.

If they ask if they can come say NO because otherwise you would have to invite your husbands parents/family etc and you can make up any reason why that is and that they can't argue.

I wouldn't drop your mother in it. Especially when neither you or your DH can stand your SIL's mother either. I would suspect your DB shares your opinion of his MIL which is why he's so keen on inviting you all on holiday with him and her to share the pain reduce the amount of time he actually has to spend with her.

Say this year doesnt work for you. If you still want to do the whole your family thing then make it bloody clear SIL's parents aren't invited - because it's a Smith thing, none of the rest of your sibling's inlaws are invited either, it's a treat for your parents etc. If your DB pushes back say something vague about it not being Sandra's cup of tea.

I think it would be unreasonable to lay all the blame with your DM, when there's plenty of other reasons why your family don't want to holiday with SILs family. You don't want to, your DH doesn't want to. They don't invite your sisters. It's very reasonable to want to go on a holiday with your siblings and DM/DD without having SILs parents coming along.

Does your mum want you to say something? You would drop her right in it...and you and your husband aren’t fans either so it’s like you’re throwing her under the bus somewhat.

If everyone was going, I'd try and convince DH to go (I have my ways...) but with DM not going it's a non-starter.

That's a good point though about DM's feelings. I might ask her if I should suggest a Smith holiday and if DB and DSIL keep pushing as to why it can't be a joint holiday (which is what I'm afraid of and 90% sure they will do) if I can reveal that DM doesn't like SILM.

I was thinking about doing it preemptively because I don't see DB that often and this is the kind of thing that's much easier face-to-face. I am worried that they will keep suggesting Smith/Jones holidays via email very far in advance (this suggested holiday for next summer was suggested a couple of months ago) and then it's hard to say 'No thanks to the Smith/Jones holiday but let's do one that's almost the same with just the Smiths'. DM mysteriously can't make the joint one but can make one that is pretty much the same but without SILM and SILF...

Holidays are too expensive to be ruined by forced togetherness with people you can’t stand. There is only so much you can do to avoid being with them. I feel sorry for the children if they get on well, but even so. It also sounds like a lot of people to please. Do think about breaking the pattern for at least some years.

Don't drop your mother in it.
Do decline any holidays you don't want to do (it sounds like sister in law's mum is probably hard work)
If you want your own Smith family holiday for Smiths and their partners then organise one.

I wouldn't say anything about DM not liking SILM.

Book a holiday just for the Smith family, do not invite SIL DP's. If it's mentioned that they would like to come, tell them that no other IL's are invited, it's just a Smith holiday.

If they ask if they can come say NO because otherwise you would have to invite your husbands parents/family etc and you can make up any reason why that is and that they can't argue.

I'm pretty sure they will say "Yes please invite DH's parents"! They will suggest a large resort with rooms enough for everyone and the more the merrier.

I should add that I definitely realise that these kind of joint family holidays are not normal, but SILM kept saying at the wedding how the 2 families were officially joined together now and made a big point of getting to know us as she expected we'd be seeing each other in the future. It would be sweet if she wasn't such a difficult person...

Could you not put it as the three GIRLS in the family (and your DH/DC) going away with DM and DF? You say they are normally not invited - this is a chance for them to have a holiday with their parents and nephew.

If they are offended it will be a pity, but you can't please everyone all of the time, and they obviously don't worry about upsetting you.

“Blame” the twin sisters!! Seriously - why would they want to go on holiday with their sister in law’s parents, who, presumably, they don’t know that well? Perfectly reasonable to ask for a Smith only holiday if you and they are the key instigators.

Presumably the previous Smith/Jones holidays have been centred around your brother and SIL, in which case, fair enough if your SIL’s family have been invited. But no reason that you should want to go (this year) or that they should be invited with all the Smiths next year.

Are there any big smith family birthdays / anniversaries coming up in the next few year? You shouldn't have to do it, but that may be a good reason to be smith only family.

I'm pretty sure they will say "Yes please invite DH's parents"! They will suggest a large resort with rooms enough for everyone and the more the merrier.

"No, it's just us Smith's."

Repeat as necessary.

I think YOU need to be prepared to say, “DM and I don’t like SILM.” You want to drop your mother in it and use her as a shield when you’ve admitted that you aren’t keen on SILM, either, and would prefer not to vacation with her. You’ve even said that once your DM wasn’t going this year, it was a non-starter for you, so you obviously dislike these people plenty yourself to avoid a holiday with them, DM or no. Good grief, wtf happened at that wedding? I am sorry to hear about things like that happening, OP; it must have been a miserable time.

Right, so, I really think you have two options. You can either admit you all dislike SILM (and F?) which might be a bit of a pile-on,* or you can simply say, “We’d prefer it to be a Smith-only holiday. Surely, you can see that’s completely normal, DB.” And if he keeps being pushy, THEN maybe you’ll have to just, er, let it all hang out. But don’t put the entire onus on your DM.

• Or maybe it’s not? You said your DB was awful to you growing up, and it doesn’t sound like he’s wonderful now. Maybe he’s the type of person you can give news to bluntly and it would be better this way. Only you know.

Don't speak to your DB. Book the Smith holiday, maybe self catering, with just enough rooms for the Smiths. If Jones ask what about them, then say this time is just for Smiths.