To tell DB that we don't want to go on holiday with DSIL's parents

[AwkwardHols]

Family tree attached. Names changed obviously!

I've never been very close to DB as he was always pretty horrible to me growing up (constantly calling me fat etc) and I've never really connected with DSIL. But my DD and DN we're both born within a month of each other and I'm keen to try and make the best of whatever relationship we can have. I suspect they both might be only children so it would be nice to have each other.

DB and DSIL sometimes went on family holidays before they were married together with DM, DF, SILM and SILF. DM and DF didn't really like this as they don't like SILM, but they did it a couple of times for DB and DSIL's sake. At DB and DSIL's wedding, DM had an almighty fallout with SILM. DM was trying to hide it so I don't think DB, DSIL and even SILM realise how upset DM is. I don't think DM wants to ever see SILM again (and if they do I reckon she'll need a good decade or two to have passed).

DB and DSIL have suggested a holiday next summer with them, DM, DF, SILM, SILF, me and DH as well as DD and DN of course. DM quickly came up with an excuse on behalf of her and DF why they can't to the place suggested and hasn't revealed that she doesn't want to go anywhere because she hates SILM. I have said that we can't make it this year either. I'm not particularly keen on SILM and DH said he wouldn't go as he finds DSIL and her whole family really weird and difficult.

So here's the thing: I'd quite like to do a family holiday in a couple of years' time with all of our family (the Smiths). I'd like to include our sisters, who weren't included in this suggested holiday. The problem is that because there has been this precedent established of SILM and SILF coming on joint family holidays with us Smiths, I think DB and DSIL (and probably SILM?) will have an expectation that they should be invited too. If we book a hotel with spare rooms I'm sure they will end up gatecrashing, and if we suggest booking a cottage or something they will suggest that we find one with enough space for SILM and SILF.

The obvious solution seems to me to have a very quiet word with DB that DM doesn't like SILM and won't go on anymore holidays with her, but would it be reasonable to do this given that DM is hiding it? It would save DM from having to come up with excuses in the future and I know that she loves the idea of a "Smith" family holiday without the "Jones's" apart from DSIL. I think DB would keep it quiet although may have to tell DSIL I guess and that could drive a wedge between DM and DSIL (not that they are particularly close).

Although thinking about next years holiday, I could see how it would be awkward if all going to the same place and time, and gave excuses that you won't be going away at all.

Why can't you just tell your brother that you don't want to go on holiday with his mother in law.

I agree. You don’t need to justify it. We have never holidayed with extended family. As a consequence we still get on with them.

Just book your holiday as your own family unit, and don’t be persuaded to go on a shit holiday with your BIL’s in-laws.

I know right?
All this 'drama' could have been avoided years ago by having a conversation.

Just tell them that it’s your immediate family only, ie your dm and df and their immediate offspring and partners and their grandchildren. No other family.

Then it’s up to them to come or not

A hotel or holiday park where you have separate rooms but can meet up some of the time is the best option, a large holiday let where you cook together sounds like a disaster

A hotel or holiday park where you have separate rooms but can meet up some of the time is the best option, a large holiday let where you cook together sounds like a disaster

DM won't go anywhere where SILM is.

I want to hear more about what they do you consider unusual.

Well they had a destination style wedding but in the UK so everyone was together for nearly a week. There was a lot of falling out amongst the guests as the Smiths and Jones's didn't get on, but some of it was hidden from the bride and groom so as not to spoil their wedding, so they still were literally saying "I don't know why everyone doesn't do this. So nice for both sides of the family to spend time together." afterwards.

But that's a thought now, as much as I think this is all complicated because nobody in the Smiths will admit that they don't like the Jones's and especially SILM, I don't want to spoil their memories of their wedding by revealing what a fiasco the whole thing was.

Makes sense, sibling by sibling and they have started with the twin.

Just to clarify, I'm not DB's twin - we have twin sisters. Sorry if the family tree is not clear.

You don't need to tell anyone that anybody doesn't get on. Worry about yourself. Let your mother make her own decision. If you want to go on a holiday with a crowd of people you don't like, off you go. If you don't want to say "No, Thanks."

I think the thing that I'm struggling to explain is how DSIL will react if we try and arrange a family holiday without her parents. I'm sure she will insist that we try and change it and if I try to say "That won't work" she will tell me how well it works and how much everyone enjoyed the joint Smith/Jones holidays that they had before their wedding because DM is hiding her feelings (although it sounds like there was a fair a amount of tension between DM and SILM on the holidays but maybe she's oblivious to it).

It's hard to explain if you haven't met DSIL but she's very repetitive and persistent, and DB is always having to tell her to stop talking because nobody wants to hear about X anymore. I know that this is something she would not let go of without an explanation, and the real explanation is one that I suppose I cannot reveal.

Equally, if I say "We just want to do a Smith holiday" this year, that will set her up for thinking that a Smith/Jones holiday is still on the cards in future years.

• not something

Ffs, this is ridiculous. No one except for your SIL wants these insane family holidays, so just tell her that for you, they aren't going to happen. This is not how you want to spend your holiday time.

I think you may need to get over the wish that your daughter and your niece have a close relationship. Given the dynamics involved with your family and SIL family, I seriously doubt this will happen, anyway.

Actually, ignore that. There was a "not" later in that sentence!

And this is exactly why our holidays are just me, DH and the kids! No one else!

I think you would be unreasonable. It’s not your place to say that on behalf of your mother!

It's hard to explain if you haven't met DSIL but she's very repetitive and persistent

In psychological terms I believe this is called the "broken record".

You can use it, too.

Just refuse to have a joint holiday - "That doesn't work for us."

Rinse and repeat - ad infinitum if necessary. She can't physically force you to book places for her family; and if you don't say when or where you are going, she can't "surprise" you by turning up at the same place.

This is so weird. If the mums had an ‘almighty fallout’ at the wedding, why would your sister in laws mum even want to go on a potential holiday?

Really, your mum really needs to grow a pair and be honest with your brother.

All that being said, if this much aggro is going into planning a potential holiday, actually going away would surely be a nightmare?!

Ah, so DSIL is a ‘won’t be told’ person. You can play that game too, you won’t be told where to go on holiday or who with any more. Life is too short. Break away next year, then consider a your side of the family holiday the year after. You and your DH and DC could be stuck in this rut of big family holidays for years, with no chance of doing anything different.

If it was hidden from them, of course, that's how they will think.

It's irrelevant really if you are the twin or not. They have reasons why they thought it would be good.
Personally I would go and invite my parents along as well.

You being sure about something doesn't mean it will happen.

Has she gone on and on about not being invited on holidays? About other members not wanting to invite her? Insisted her parents go places?

She have your bank details and can block a holiday this way? No. Nothing stopping you booking something and going. Only you are stopping yourself.

Your mum has declined the offer, doesn't seem to be any issue there.

You're not from up North or Ireland are you?

Equally, if I say "We just want to do a Smith holiday" this year, that will set her up for thinking that a Smith/Jones holiday is still on the cards in future years.

Just because she thinks that doesn’t mean it will happen. Don’t tell her your mother dislikes hers. Say “I’d like Smith family holiday this year” and when she suggests inviting her parents say “no thanks, I’d like it to be just the Smiths”.

You say she’s repetitive and goes on. Just be a broken records. “This holiday I’m organising is just the Smiths, no extra in laws.” “This is just the Smiths”. “I’m organising the holiday for the Smiths”.

Of course she and your brother may decide not to come.