To tell DB that we don't want to go on holiday with DSIL's parents

[AwkwardHols]

Family tree attached. Names changed obviously!

I've never been very close to DB as he was always pretty horrible to me growing up (constantly calling me fat etc) and I've never really connected with DSIL. But my DD and DN we're both born within a month of each other and I'm keen to try and make the best of whatever relationship we can have. I suspect they both might be only children so it would be nice to have each other.

DB and DSIL sometimes went on family holidays before they were married together with DM, DF, SILM and SILF. DM and DF didn't really like this as they don't like SILM, but they did it a couple of times for DB and DSIL's sake. At DB and DSIL's wedding, DM had an almighty fallout with SILM. DM was trying to hide it so I don't think DB, DSIL and even SILM realise how upset DM is. I don't think DM wants to ever see SILM again (and if they do I reckon she'll need a good decade or two to have passed).

DB and DSIL have suggested a holiday next summer with them, DM, DF, SILM, SILF, me and DH as well as DD and DN of course. DM quickly came up with an excuse on behalf of her and DF why they can't to the place suggested and hasn't revealed that she doesn't want to go anywhere because she hates SILM. I have said that we can't make it this year either. I'm not particularly keen on SILM and DH said he wouldn't go as he finds DSIL and her whole family really weird and difficult.

So here's the thing: I'd quite like to do a family holiday in a couple of years' time with all of our family (the Smiths). I'd like to include our sisters, who weren't included in this suggested holiday. The problem is that because there has been this precedent established of SILM and SILF coming on joint family holidays with us Smiths, I think DB and DSIL (and probably SILM?) will have an expectation that they should be invited too. If we book a hotel with spare rooms I'm sure they will end up gatecrashing, and if we suggest booking a cottage or something they will suggest that we find one with enough space for SILM and SILF.

The obvious solution seems to me to have a very quiet word with DB that DM doesn't like SILM and won't go on anymore holidays with her, but would it be reasonable to do this given that DM is hiding it? It would save DM from having to come up with excuses in the future and I know that she loves the idea of a "Smith" family holiday without the "Jones's" apart from DSIL. I think DB would keep it quiet although may have to tell DSIL I guess and that could drive a wedge between DM and DSIL (not that they are particularly close).

Difficulties with guests - one side wanted more people there?

Make yourself happy and care about the opinions of those, who truly care for you. Your twin doesn’t like you very much and neither does his wife. It sounds as if the feeling to a certain extent is mutual and you haven’t moved past the childhood dynamic with him. The more accepting of this fact, the easier life will be. You cannot force a relationship with them. My life got so much better when I finally understood this about my brother and his wife.

I would be tempted to go on a holiday with your parents and sisters without your brother and sil. I get you want the children to be close. But that doesn’t necessarily involve going away. You’ve declined this holiday because it’s not on your terms meaning that the children won’t be together. If you invite your brother and sil, you are afraid this will again be on their terms. They didn’t see fit to include your sisters so I’m struggling to see why you have to include your brother and sil. Then another time perhaps your parents could go away with just your brother and sil.

Oh and fgs don’t tell your brother your mother doesn’t like his mil. He may love her. This could destroy their relationship.

I don't understand why you would want a Smith family holiday given you dont have a close relationship with your brother/sil. It would be madness to book a holiday cottage together. Sil will be in a strop because her parents weren't invited. It could be a recipe for disaster when all parties involved are not close and some don't even like others much.

Unless your mother specifically asks you to tell your brother that she doesn't like his inlaws, I'd advise you stay well out of that.

Jesus Christ... Why not just go on your own holidays. Why the need to bring every Tom Dick and Harry. Your sisters weren't invited on this holiday so no need to invite your brother on a future holiday. And certainly not your brother's in laws.

Can nobody make decisions just for themselves anymore. Can nobody go on holiday just as their own little family, or just with the people they actually want to be on holiday with. If you don't like your brother, sil or her parents why the fk would you be asking them all along on a holiday that is going to cost a lot of money and almost definitely be strained and awkward.

Just go on your own holiday, with the people you want to go on holiday with. It's not that difficult.

I'm a bit gobsmacked that your DB hasn't realised that relations between your DM and his MIL are bad.

I can't bear one of my BILs and no-one in his family would dream of suggesting we holiday together.

I'm not saying DM is right to be so angry, but I don't think I've ever seen her so angry with anyone and she can really hold a grudge.

Well that would go some way towards explaining why you're so conflict avoidant.

But you're an adult now. You need to pull up your big girl pants and say "We've decided we're having a family holiday in XXX next summer. It's a lovely place and we're really looking forward to the opportunity of bonding as a family unit."

Then just shut up.

Strongly suggest you don't invite your mum. She sounds like a right drama llama.

They've suggested joint holidays that don't involve your sisters.

There's nothing wrong with suggesting a holiday just for the Smith family.

No different.

Stay out of it, if you'd mother doesn't like her son's MIL that's for them to deal with. Not you.

My DNs DB and SIL actually love going on holiday with our DM +DF me, DH, DS and DHs parents, it's not that unusual. SILs parents aren't really in her life or they'd be welcome to.

there will be no family holiday next summer because DB/DSIL suggested the joint one first). You can't seriously be allowing their suggestion to stop you having the holiday you actually want?!

I only said YABU because of your use of the Imperial We - you mean you don't want to go on holiday.

Do NOT discuss your mother's dislike of your SIL's mother with anyone in the family. Your Mum has chosen to be polite to preserve other family relationships. This is not your business and you will be a bother causer. Also you would be breaking your mother's trust. Mind your own business. If you arrange a family holiday in the future just chose somewhere with no room for SiL's parents.

Thinking more about it. What’s wrong with a couple going on holiday with both parents? Makes perfect sense especially when there’s children involved.

Holidays are limited and not always affordable.

Take both sets of parents for a family holiday. The rest of your days are then your own little family time. Grandparents get two weeks instead of a month.

It’s genius when you think about it.

I want to hear more about what they do you consider unusual.

Instead of a week lol

I’ve read the thread a few times now and there’s nothing to suggest that the in-laws would be automatically included.
It’s just what you think would happen.
And why are you letting their holiday impact your life so much that you aren’t having one yourselves? Really you don’t want any holiday and that’s why your imagined holidays will also come with issues. Because what else would stop you still going away next year?

If I were you I'd make the holiday a cottage type thing that only sleeps the required number of people, excluding SIL's parents.

That solves the gatecrashing thing because there simply won't be room.
If your SIL gets humpy about it, then that's her look out. If your DB refuses to come then in all honesty you've got a win situation on your hands, as you're only inviting them for the DD's company anyway by the sound of it.

How old are your DD and DN? Is there an option to invite just the DN without her parents, in the guise of "giving them a break"?

Also, don't tell your brother - that's for your mother to do, if she chooses. You don't get involved in that.
Imagine if you told him, then he quizzed your mother on it, and she chose to deny it?! You'd look very silly.

And who knows if your dm had spoken up about the problems then this wouldn’t even be an issue.
Instead now she is going to miss out on that time with her gc.
Unless something really bad happened, and not the usual their side ate all the sausage rolls. Then she needs to get over it. Without knowing details however she could be very reasonable to not like them. There’s nothing about the in-laws to suggest that they were the issue but general guests.

Call it the “Smith Girl Holiday” and then explain that it’s just for your birth family.

Hoppinggreen has it. Stop forcing a relationship between the cousins when you all dislike each other. It's just a whole lot of unnecessary drama, just for the sake of 'cousins'.
I dont know if you see that's it's a bit hypocritical of you but you want to push a relationship between cousins yet you dont get along with your own brother and sil. I'm just trying to say that you have this rosy idea in your head about the kids but you yourself arent close to your db. Why spend time with people you dont like?

Thinking more about it. What’s wrong with a couple going on holiday with both parents?

Nothing, if everyone likes each other and gets along really well!!

These big family holidays are great if everyone gets on well together, why on earth anyone would do it when there are these tensions is completely beyond me. It sounds like hell on Earth.

Do not say anything to your DB, your DM has to sort this out for yourself.

You should be able to just says it’s a Smiths only holiday but maybe find a special reason. Do your parents have a big anniversary or birthday coming up around the time you want to go. Just say it’s a special intimate celebration break for your family only. If DB & DSIL don’t want to come without her parents could you offer to bring DN?

Dont say anything about your mum, it's not your place if she doesn't want to.

Also its perfectly ok to say that you dont get much holiday and you find it a bit uncomfortable spending a whole week with people you dont really see or keep in contact with day to day (if you are trying to book a holiday without your sils parents). Or say then you would have to invite your own extended family and the numbers would just be too much. I'd suggest a compromise of a weekend away with them if they insist and you can stomach it

I'm thinking a load of this could easily be sorted out with communication. No-one wants to talk about anything. Maybe that's what's also odd about the inlaws, instead of letting things vent they are open.

And because noone is talking about things with each other as they should, assumptions are made based on previous holidays. Nothing the op has posted has included anything beyond grandparents until now. Until the ops mum found faults at the wedding she was going on the holidays.

Maybe if you decline your other siblings may be asked. They might have wanted a big family holiday but to go all-in would be too much. Makes sense, sibling by sibling and they have started with the twin. You would have known their reasons if anyone actually asked them why.

I understand the difficulties of being bullied I am not ignoring this. The dynamics as adults might have changed. Bullies don't always stay like this for life, and I am not condoning bullying.

Is it you don't want to have difficult conversations? No-one wants to deal with them, but we have to. We should be open and honest with ourselves and others. Don't tell him why not, ask him why he wants it. Could be the same reasons you want your own family holiday.