Aibu to want to be a Mrs even though I'm now divorced?

[flirtygirl]

I kept my maiden name and used my married name for the years I was married (13). The married name I've been changing over now but for years I was Miss C Smith or Mrs C Smith Jones (both show on my credit report, passport is in one and driving licence in the other) .

I now want to be Mrs C Smith instead of Miss.

No idea why but it hurts me for people to think I'm a single mum who has never been married, is it my internalised misogyny?

I know it shouldn't matter to be but it does.

@ConFusion360 I'm going to make one last attempt before I go to sleep. You said that there are 'benefits' to being called Mrs and wearing a wedding ring. I've asked you three times now if you would kindly share with us what those benefits are - so will you?

Not the benefits of marriage - I know what they are (legal, financial security, tax breaks, etc.) & benefit from them. Without being called Mrs or wearing a ring. So I'd love to know what I'm missing out on.

“ Equally, whats wrong with Mrs or Miss?”
It defines a woman by her relationship to a man. That’s what’s wrong with it.

If there was any advantage to be had from announcing your marital status, men would do it.

Equally, whats wrong with Mrs or Miss?

Nothing, if you feel it’s important that strangers know if you’re married or not.

I feel it’s pretty irrelevant to the vast majority of people unless they have a good reason to know (financial checks, security vetting, immigration etc) in which case they give me a nice form to fill in.

I don’t feel that advertising my marital status through my title confers any particular benefit to me, and is an institution that continues to treat women differently from men by putting greater emphasis on their marital status in the public sphere than is the case for men. So that’s what’s wrong for Miss and Mrs for me, and why I use neither.

You said that there are 'benefits' to being called Mrs and wearing a wedding ring (but won't explain what they are).

You know, I think perceptions about these benefits might be what stops the UK adopting the perfectly sensible convention used in France and Germany where the default title for all adult women is Mrs with no connection to marital status, because the section of society that perceives a Mrs as higher status thinks that those of us who are not married should not have this benefit, whatever it is.

But then I've contradicted my own argument because being a Madame or Mademoiselle or a Frau/Frauline still lands women with an annoyance/indigity that men are immune from because they don't get themselves in a knot about 'no longer being a 'Herrette' - see, if there even a term for a young man in Germany and when people start calling you Herr, it means you are no longer young looking?

So we should adopt Ms as a default title for women, but you would get moans from the women 'who like being Mrs' so it's a circular argument.

What purpose do titles serve anyway? The Scandinavian/Nordic countries manage perfectly well by addressing everyone by their first names. I would be quite happy if everyone called me Barbara instead of having to go through repeated awkward conversations along the 'is it Miss, Mrs or Ms' line or people assuming that I'm a Mrs and calling me Mrs Seville, which is DMs name not mine or raising an eyebrow when I say it's Ms Seville, because sadly, and as this thread illustrates, a large section of society assumes that if you are a Ms, you are a rampant man hating divorced lesbian feminist, not that there's anything wrong with that of course .

But wanting to be treated the same way as men is wrong, it seems.

Barbara I think you have nailed it. There still remains a small subset of women who think they have earned Mrs and resent it being used by those who haven't. I imagine that was even more the case back when Ms was first adopted. I also think that there will always be some who like Miss because it is associated with youth and attractiveness. I think it is a shame we have ended up with a a system that that still nicely serves the purposes of patriarchy. Mrs - out of the game by virtue of being married, Ms - out of the game as either already married ( damaged goods?), or one of those nasty feminist types and Miss - an available target. I think adding Ms into the mix means we have ended up with a worse system than than we had before. If we all used Mrs this post thread would never have even happened.

I prefer the Italian system. Women keep their own names. On official letters etc men get the title Signore e.g. Signor Rossi and women are Signora whether married or not.

I have used Ms since before many of you were born. It has never caused me the slightest inconvenience. And if it had caused a few women hating misogynists to think I’m an uptight feminist-so much the better!

Same here. I don’t need to define myself by my relationship with a man - never have, never will. If some poor saps choose to interpret that as signifying that I’m lesbian or an uptight feminist, then crack on - I’m perfectly happy and comfortable with that!

Reminds me of the old joke. “Do you know feminists have no sense of humour? No, but if you hum a few bars, I’ll soon pick up the tune.”

These kinds of thread just make me a bit sad that the English speaking world adopted Ms, with the best of intentions, instead of just dropping Miss and using Mrs for everyone.

The thought of using Mrs for everyone makes me sad. It's a title that connotates marital status, so I want no part of it. I will not use it.

And as pointed out by another poster, there's still the whole issue of when a woman stops being a Fraulein/Mademoiselle so it's not like they have it cracked either.

I’ve used Ms since I was old enough to beed a title. It has never been a issue including in DBS checks.

No it’s not an abbreviation of “mistress” it was invented by feminists as a new gender neutral title at a time when all women were expected (yes by the bloody patriarchy) to be Miss or Mrs. This thread is full of some real idiocy on the topic, isn’t it?

If it makes anyone think I’m a lesbian or a feminist I’m fine with that.

I got divorced 10 years ago and have never gone back to Miss or Ms or my maiden name, out of pure laziness. Exh now remarried so yes, we're both Mrs Married surname. It's never been mentioned as an issue but I've often wondered if it is. I was always too lazy to get it all changed on bank accounts, policies etc. I feel quite selfish now that I've committed that to text!
I'm engaged to someone and will take his name when we get married, if either of us ever get round to planning it. Sensing a theme...

is anyone ever tempted to check 'Rear Admiral' on hotel websites, or is that just me? Rear Admiral Drawn has such a nice ring to it.

I've always fancied Wing Commander myself.

Why do we have to have these titles anyway? Why can't we just be Flossie Fridgegrazer - or F Fridgegrazer?

That would be the $64,000 question.

There are many things about this debate I find difficult to understand. One of them is the idea that it would somehow be easier to completely change the meaning of Mrs, so that it becomes the default title for an adult woman than to widen the use of the title we have already for that, which is Ms. Americans have managed it- all we have to do to make it happen is to do it. I can think of no circumstances, except I suppose getting married where my marital status is remotely relevant.

I use Ms wherever I can now, but a few places still have me down as Mrs, which i'm not overly bothered about. My 8 year old DD has decided to be a Ms already rather than a Miss as she doesn't see why men should just have Mr and women have to have titles that denote their marital status and age. I never see the title Master now for boys either.

Yes, that is rather batshit Bertrand.

“ I never see the title Master now for boys either”
Cue the hordes of Mumsnetters who use it all the time/have sons who are called it every day.

I’ve always known I wouldn’t change my name and am usually a Ms (although like a few other PPs I often just randomly choose from Miss, Ms, Mrs) however I had never given any thought before to how awful the phrase “maiden name” is and I’ve used it loads - only about people who have changed their names of course, and I would never assume because actually most of my friends haven’t changed theirs, like me. So, thank you and I will make an effort to never say “maiden” again.

Brilliant! If every Mumsnetters stopped using maiden name and started using Ms all the time, we’d get it sorted in no time.

I too have used Ms or sometimes Miss for over 40 years despite being married twice ( still married now) . I don't think I have ever used Mrs . I have kept my maiden name throughout that time as well. I someone asks if I am married or it is relevant , I tell them, otherwise I see no reason to. I don't wear a wedding ring either, and have never had an engagement ring. Make of. that what you will, I am.not bothered what people think about it, it suits me.

Just realised that I used ' maiden name' Never thought about it before but yes it is insulting really

As a written word , Ms is fine and fits the purpose of denoting a female without a marital status of any kind attached..

It’s just such an awkward one orally : it either sounds like a bee buzzing or as if you are saying Miss oddly or with a southern states American accent.

Maybe that is less of a problem now that first names or first and surnames together rather than Title plus Surname are used in spoken introductions or formal situations than previously .

Still a clunky sound, though.

I remember the very "warm" welcome I got when I moved to this country 9 years ago and tried to register myself and husband with a GP. The dragon lady of a receptionist insisted I could NOT use Ms on my paperwork because I was a married woman (despite never changing my name) because, she snarled, "We don't do that HERE" 😂 Hello to you, too.

“ It’s just such an awkward one orally : it either sounds like a bee buzzing or as if you are saying Miss oddly or with a southern states American accent. ”
Only because you don’t say it enough. Mrs is not exactly an easy word phonetically!

In my experience, it only sounds odd on the tongue of someone who is either self conscious about it, or who wants to show that they think it’s ridiculous. The sort of people who say “feminist” in inverted commas and as if they are holding it at arm’s length between finger and thumb.

So just use it all the time. Make it standard and routine like Americans do. Or how it is in many schools and workplaces already.

When is email female teachers, I have no idea whether they’re Miss or Mrs, so I just use Ms. Same with most women in email now - it’s easier to just use Ms than risk getting it wrong. Even though I have DH’s surname and this was something I wanted to do, I do find I’m increasingly ticking the “Ms” box on forms now. Not sure why? I think I like that there’s no age connotations attached to it, or maybe it’s just that it’s more neutral / less complicated?