AIBU to suggest that you aren't really an animal lover if you're not a vegan

[KylieKoKo]

I'm a meateater but I was chatting to a vegan friend of mine about this and I think she has a point. It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs when its perfectly possible to live without them. I couldn't help but agree with her, and, as a non-vegan, had to conceed that I don't really love animals. In fact, I'm putting the fact that they taste nice above their lives and well-being on a daily basis.

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone on here had an argument against this.

I think you can argue that you are not necessarily an animal lover if you are vegan, if you favour transporting vegan alternatives half way across the planet, adding to carbon emissions and creating climate change which damages wildlife. In that scenario I would say that eating pork from a local organic farm whose pigs are free range and have a happy life is nicer.

I don't eat pork and I think it's mean to keep pigs to eat but my husband always argues that they wouldn't exist at all if we didn't eat them, people won't keep them for the sake of it - even the rare breeds.

I wouldn't say I was a particular animal lover anyway - I don't have pets (or maybe that IS being an animal lover because I'm not keeping animals for my own amusement). But I do worry about the environment and wildlife.

better not nicer!

This statement implies that a vegan diet has no consequences for animals. I suspect all the small animals (rodents,birds) affected by hectares of monoculture, loss of hedges/habitats and pest control would beg to differ. Not to mention those further afield I.e. the Amazon whose habitat is being destroyed to grow vegan alternatives (and admittedly cheap beef). Cattle are also very successfully used in conservation grazing schemes to widen biodiversity in the Uk. The UK has some of the toughest animal welfare legislation in the World, especially around slaughter. The basic truth is that seasonal locally grown produce slaughtered locally is the best option for both animal welfare and the climate, for us in the UK that means high welfare, pasture reared meat (lamb and beef) and seasonal vegetables/fruit. Stopping eating meat doesn't necessarily improve animal welfare, in fact you could suggest that removing the consumer demand for high welfare produce (demanded by animal conscious consumers) could in fact lower the demand, as chicken dippers and the like win through. We need to move towards people growing more themselves and/or buying direct from local producers.

Yes its easy to prove that most vegan diets are not more ecologically friendly, but theyre not directly purchasing dead animals and then calling themselves animal lovers.
We are all hypocrites in many ways and hopefully we all try and do our bit in others

YANBU. But most people who eat animals will not want to admit this.

Apparently we would need 4 planets to sustain our population (veganism using more land mass and more of our resources than meat and dairy does) if we all went vegan. So by eating meat we are saving 75% of the human population who are also animals. I don't want to sacrifice 75% of my friends, family and loved ones the cost of veganism is too high.

I love many animals that I don't eat. So if you want to say I don't love pigs, chickens and cows, fine. That still leaves hundreds of species for me to love

To be honest it just sounds like a stupid emotional thing to say to get a reaction out of meat eaters, and put said vegan in a pedestal of being far superior than anyone who has a different view ...

@ Helmlover1 b12 must be supplemented on a vegan diet (as it often is on a non vegan diet, it’s just the supplements are given to the animals). I’ve been vegan 9 years no deficiencies, not had meat since age 3.

YABU I love animals and I eat them too but hey, I need to eat!

@ InfiniteSheldon logically that can’t be true since most plants are fed to animals

Yes you are! I love animals that’s why I only eat responsibly sourced meat.

Those who claim sheep, cows etc would be extinct if we didn’t eat them ignore the fact that intensively farmed animals have been selectively bread by humans and are not natural wild species anyway. There are wild relatives of cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, chickens etc and provided humans don’t ruin every place on earth these could continue to exist.

When vast swathes of habitat are given over to monoculture crops to satisfy demand for protein on a vegan diet, and biodiversity and habitats are lost, I think tiny numbers of wild boar, sheep and cattle are hardly going to thrive.

Local & sustainable should be everyone’s watchword regardless of omnivore/vegetarian/vegan.

But the vast majority of people won’t put up with the price rises, lack of choice and changes to their shopping habits.

Lobby big business - supermarkets, restaurant chains, food manufacturers- before worrying about whether giving up meat & dairy makes you a better consumer.

For most people it doesn’t- the soy in your tofu, the avocado on your toast, the out of season asparus risotto or processed vegan burger at your local restaurant has all had a bad effect on the environment elsewhere.

I love nature, I love our planet, I love animals to the extent that I think they are wonderful and fascinating. I also completely accept that we evolve to eat other animals and that we do not need to over sentimentalise that.

I limit my meat intake and am considering eating a mostly vegan diet for environmental reasons but I don’t believe there is value in the whole ‘don’t eat cute fluffy things’ mentality. I also have reservations due to the food miles that many traditionally vegan foods eg. soya, different kinds of nuts, fruits, acocados etc. do and need to balance this up with the environmental impact of eating a more locally sourced diet with more animal products.

I've kept chickens for over 20 years. Here's a FACT for you...
Chickens are omnivores. They like nothing better than eating a mouse or a small bird when they catch them!
Oh, and they love frogs, newts and baby birds.
So...

@ Andromeida59 great! If you need any help just say.

The battery chickens may do better having the eggs fed back to them as the calcium depletion of laying an egg every day (which is not normal, they have been selectively bred to do this) can be hard on their little bodies.

@ BrightYellowDaffodil isn’t that a betrayal though? To know an animal well and presumably know his or her personality and treat them with kindness and then to slaughter them whilst young and healthy? We’d be up in arms if it was done to a dog.

Not everyone can cope with supplements and a vegan diet isn’t going to achieve full nutrition. If you pretend that you don’t need B12 even then it’s still difficult (but not impossible) to have a healthy diet. I’m not much a meat eater myself (makes me ill) but have to be very careful about ensuring that I get the nutrients that I miss out on as a result,

I'm a meat eater. I don't dislike animals but I wouldn't say I love them if I'm honest. I would never own a pet.

I don't buy local meat either, I buy whatever is on offer at Asda. I do buy free range eggs though.

Just watched the documentary The Game Changers on Netflix. Highly recommend. I’ve been vegetarian for quite a while but have had one or two reservations about going vegan. Not any more. Not sure I can quit cheese and chocolate forever, but if I do continue consuming occasional dairy products, it certainly won’t be with health in mind, quite the opposite.

No, not unreasonable at all.
Re B12 - what a load of guff.
Vegan family over 12 years so far.
Chickens lay a clutch of eggs and sit when they have the number they want.

I wouldn't describe myself as an animal lover but neither would I participate in anything which abused them because it is simply just not right.

@Velveteenfruitbowl
Marmite and toast 😍 should cover B vits

I can't understand why people can't see this is a logically statement the OP is posing.

Why can't people just be honest and say I guess you're right OP but dank, I like eating meat. Instead of getting defensive?

I'm not an animal lover, can't stand them tbh but even I see it's not cool that we eat them.

I do eat them, but not without remorse so why can't people (in particular animal lovers) see this?

Especially with the issues around climate change right now.

It's very strange

And if vegan isn't an option I certainly think animal lovers that haven't considered at least being vegetarian most certainly hypocritical.