AIBU to suggest that you aren't really an animal lover if you're not a vegan

[KylieKoKo]

I'm a meateater but I was chatting to a vegan friend of mine about this and I think she has a point. It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs when its perfectly possible to live without them. I couldn't help but agree with her, and, as a non-vegan, had to conceed that I don't really love animals. In fact, I'm putting the fact that they taste nice above their lives and well-being on a daily basis.

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone on here had an argument against this.

I have never eaten meat, I have only consumed small amounts of ghee as a child, that’s the only dairy I have eaten. I do eat honey, I also eat eggs from a friends little flock of chickens.

I love animals, but as I have a cat I have to feed her meat as to feed her a species innapropriate diet would be cruel and neglectful.

There are wild relatives of cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, chickens etc

These “wild relatives” are actually different species. It’s like saying it’s ok to kill all pet dogs because they have “wild relatives” aka wolves.

Doesn’t change the fact you’re proposing a lifestyle that will kill off several species. It’s no different from killing all the rhinos or sea turtles.

Th teeth argument is also a myth- how many animals have you killed with your teeth ? Mammals with big teeth - gorillas and hippos to name two, are herbivores.

No, it’s not a myth. Teeth in mammals are different shapes for eating different foods, not for killing. You are woefully uneducated to think that teeth are for killing and their size is what denotes their function.

I agree, actually. People get so pissy about being "told what to do" but emotions aside, if you love animals you don't eat them or harm them. It's just logical.

Domesticated cattle, sheep etc have been selectively bred by humans from wild animals, they have been bred to be fatter, bigger, have more wool or whatever. They aren’t “natural” in that sense. Animals can only reproduce within the same species - so domesticated dogs are the sameness species as wild dogs.

The teeth argument definitely a myth - gorillas have canine teeth - they are herbivores.

Have look at this chart about different teeth in different animals

images.app.goo.gl/jKxJKerdUUjX4waC9

And?

I agree fully. With the OP.

All this nonsense about seeing animals pottering contentedly around fields is so absurd. They're basically prisoners who then get killed. Who cares if they go extinct? How much do you love them really?

We don't need to eat meat. We evolved to eat meat through neccesity and are now evolving slowly into not eating it.....because we don't need to. I don't know why people get so defensive on this....of course we shouldn't be eating meat..

Domesticated cattle, sheep etc have been selectively bred by humans from wild animals, they have been bred to be fatter, bigger, have more wool or whatever. They aren’t “natural” in that sense. Animals can only reproduce within the same species - so domesticated dogs are the sameness species as wild dogs.

Yes, humans domesticated some species and selectively bred them to be bigger and healthier. But none of their species is “wild.” They have benefitted from humans as a species

No, domesticated dogs are NOT the same species as wild dogs. You cannot cross breed them and have fertile offspring. Which is the definition of a species.

I don’t think cattle, sheep etc have benefitted by being exploited by humans.

The teeth argument definitely a myth - gorillas have canine teeth - they are herbivores.

Bullshit. Gorillas eat birds, reptiles, monkeys and other small animals. They do mostly eat vegetation (as do humans). Studies have proven this over and over. They have found these animals DNA in their shit. You can’t get animal DNA in your hit without eating said animal.

Domesticated dogs not descended from wild species? did they emerge domesticated ? I know what species means thanks for the patronage.

Who cares if they go extinct? How much do you love them really?

So “love” is freeing all animals to their certain death AND the death of any future generations? But it’s not “love” to raise, feed, and breed that animal with high welfare standards ensuring future generations while killing some of them?

So kill all= love
Kill some= not love

Okey dokey.

Domesticated dogs not descended from wild species? did they emerge domesticated ? I know what species means thanks for the patronage.

But that is not what you said or I said. You said domesticated dogs ARE the same species as wild dogs (they aren’t). You said zero about evolution and “descent” and even then, a species descended via evolution is still a different species from their common ancestor. They are still not the same species.

No, you obviously have zero idea what the scientific definition of a species is because everything you have said so far is incorrect on the subject of species.

Yeah, I don't think it's love to be raising them so you can eat their corpses, funnily enough!

I'd rather they became gradually extinct than live the way most of them do. Dont give me this humane killing bullshit, you're still stuffing animals into a facility so that you can profit on their corpses.

I stopped eating meat when I had my dog. It seemed wrong to eat some animals whilst caring for and loving another species.

I am rather hypocritical though as I still eat dairy and occasionally fish as I feel healthier that way.

gorillas and hippos to name two, are herbivores.

SO double Bullshit because neither gorillas nor hippos are herbivores. I already addressed gorillas, so here is the truth about hippos.
hippos eat impala, baby elephants and even their own kind. While the cannibalistic incidents still number fewer than a dozen, they have occurred across the animals’ range, from South Africa to Uganda.

Hippos are not only omnivores, but cannibals.

I'd rather they became gradually extinct than live the way most of them do.

I’m cool with that opinion. That neither vegan nor meat eater is truly an animal lover because BOTH result in nasty deaths to the animals in question.

To my mind, farming animals is like slavery of animals. Some die, some are miserable/abused but they continue as a species.

Abolishing farming of animals that are dependent on humans literally is like genocide of those species. And don’t give me that “gradually go extinct” crap because deliberate neglect and destruction of their habitat is hardly a natural process.

YABU. Being a vegan just isn't possible for some people, myself included. I am an animal lover and have been vegetarian since I was 5. When I was 14 I decided to become vegan, however I had to stop that on doctor's advice. I have a health condition that means my body doesn't process non-dairy sources of calcium, which caused me all kinds of problems, I was fainting all the time, tired all the time, it wasn't sustainable.

I am still vegetarian to this day, and I don't think it's fair to say I'm not an animal lover, because I am unable to be a vegan for health reasons.

I don’t know why people get so angry at this, I think it’s a great discussion.
Op, it is interesting. I don’t eat meat but am sat wearing leather shoes with cows milk in my tea. I know it would be a few simple changes to be kinder to animals and I do love them (and love your friends argument). I don’t know why I don’t. I’m on a restricted diet due to allergies but to be honest I’m not getting much from the small amount of dairy that I eat. Hmm, something to ponder for the day.

I am a vegetarian and I call BS on this. Nobody has the right to lecture or impose their food habits on others. Freedom of choice.

The evolutionary argument is a spurious one anyway - people in our culture have choices. You choose to eat dead bodies - you have that choice, whatever other animal species do. Some humans and animals do not have a choice due to their environment. It’s not natural to intensively rear inbred animals all crammed together in industrialised production and fed hormones, antibiotics.etc I know everyone on here claims to eat grass fed organic meat, most people don’t.

I love animals enough that I care they are treated humanely and not cruelly. I care enough that I wouldnt kill them myself and that I feel some guilt over the whole animal exploitation issue.
I dont care enough to be able to give it all up completely. Ive tried, it made me ill and frankly miserable. Ive tried so many times.

I find people are very disassociated from their food. Society has conditioned this view of Meat = food, not, meat= slaughtered animals.

Meat eaters (and proclaimed animal lovers) around me are constantly questioning my choices not to eat meat, I'm sat there trying to eat my lunch and they are just itching for a debate.

I find generally people:
a) don't like feeling they are being told what to do
b) don't like feeling guilty and;
c) find it too difficult to cut it out

Someone said the other day "Veganism is an old tribal word meaning bad hunter" ...so I asked them when the last time was they hunted for their meat, funnily enough they didn't have a comeback..

Let me eat my food in peace meat eaters