AIBU to suggest that you aren't really an animal lover if you're not a vegan

[KylieKoKo]

I'm a meateater but I was chatting to a vegan friend of mine about this and I think she has a point. It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs when its perfectly possible to live without them. I couldn't help but agree with her, and, as a non-vegan, had to conceed that I don't really love animals. In fact, I'm putting the fact that they taste nice above their lives and well-being on a daily basis.

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone on here had an argument against this.

I always wonder what people think would happen to pigs, if we all went vegan. Or cows

When I think of the big world message that vegans are dishing out and it worked. That suddenly everyone just stopped eating meat. The picture I get is of giant bonfires of all these bodies of animals no longer needed and all these vegans dancing around them high fiving each other as a chunk of species go extinct.

Even a gradual process would mean these animals wouldn't be bred at all. It's like their plan has a dark undertone to it.

Deliberate exaggeration when you say 'torture and suffering' though?

Theres very little that we do in today's world that doesn't harm some animals (including farming vegan food I'm afraid)

Another though, if a vegan has a cat they need to feed it. It eats meat. Therefore that person is not living a vegan lifestyle by being a cat owner. I'd say you do you. You can love animals...um just not all of them I guess

'Its quite telling that no counterarguements have been posted'

Why should people provide counterarguements? No one has to prove anything to you. I'm a meat eater and consider myself an animal lover.

@moobar I didnt mention anyone's livelihood.

I feel way more guilt on a personal level when my cat brings in a baby blackbird than I do eating a free-range roast chicken.

I am a vegetarian

It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs

I don’t eat dairy because of allergies. Eggs I get from a friend.

I don’t see how friend taking the eggs from her chickens who are well looked after and left to live out their days in her garden is so terrible.

I like animals but they taste delicious. I have no issues with the eating of ethically raised meat, free range eggs etc. The animals would not exist if we didn't eat them.

I agree. In fact this issue blows my nearly 4 year olds mind, we are veggie and have told her she can choose to eat meat when she is older if she likes. We’ve just said we don’t eat meat because we love animals and don’t want them to have to die for us. She was getting a bit sanctimonious though so I keep explaining that people who are kind and whom we love, also love animals but decide to eat meat. She’s like ‘but mummy, why would you eat animals if you love them’.

I feel ethically wrong not being vegan, but don’t have the energy to find alternatives for my kids in the main (they love cheese and eggs), and I’m not cooking different meals for them and us. So I don’t judge meat eaters as I can relate to the prioritising myself out of laziness or selfishness.

YABU. I am an animal lover who couldn't go vegan due to allergies. Does that feed your anger, OP?

@KylieKoKo farmers produce the meat and dairy, that's their livelihood. Your title by its goady nature suggests that in doing so, unless they are vegan, which is unlikely at best, they have no love for those animals. Or for their dogs, or horses, or anything else they may have.

Or those that dedicate their life's and homes to look after rescue dogs and cats, that other people have thrown away, tuck into a roast on a Sunday and don't love those dogs as a result.

Or animal sanctuarys, police dog operators, what about guide dogs? Disability dogs? No love for those either because the owner or trainer had a bacon sandwich this morning.

If we were all vegan, livestock would have no value and be too expensive to keep. So they'd probably all get slaughtered 😆

YABU veganism is not the new religion we are not hypocrites for not believing

Ordering the vegetarian meal? There’s more animal blood on your hands.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659

Industrial monocrops like wheat, rice and soya cause far more disturbance to ecosystems than eating pastured meat and thus displacement and death to all the animals hitherto living there, or trying to return. Think of the whole Almería peninsula covered in polytunnels, or the huge barren flat wheat fields of Manitoba. How much wildlife can they support vs a lush Devon meadow raising lamb & dairy. Add all the ploughs, harvesters, pesticides, insecticides, rodenticides around granaries, fertiliser run off causing eutrophication and dead zones in the rivers and seas and you realise that industrial agriculture is an ecological travesty to all creatures.

So what about animals disappearing, OP, for your counter-argument? You haven’t commented on that.

Oh stop it. You know it’s much more nuanced than that. Ffs

Oh boo stinking hoo...

Not this again

Absolutely agree!!

You can’t be an animal lover and eat them (or wear them). How can you pretend to love someone when you contribute to their suffering!?

@moobar

Are you a farmer? As meateater I have no issue with your profession but I don't believe that you love the animals you raise for slaughter, anymore than I would believe a dog owner who slaughtered their pet loved it.

I have a vegan friend who thinks if we all became vegan tomorrow all the farmed animals could roam free.

They would all have to be slaughtered and many other animals would also die to protect crops.
So no it’s not true. Our very existence hurts animals, vegans to!

I love eating animals, does that count?

Do you think you can kill an animal and guarantee no suffering?

Yes.

I completely agree. I don’t count myself as an animal lover though.

Depends how you define “love”
If it’s love to convert grazing land to vegetable and soy fields, thus eliminating the habitat of domesticated animals and driving their species to extinction, then yes a Vegan “loves” animals.

But if it’s love to provide continuation of their species so long as humans exist, food, shelter, medical care and a habitat to live within in return for use of byproducts that domesticated animals have no use for and the culling of mostly excess violent males, then yes a meat eater “loves” animals.

I guess it depends on whether you value the life of the individual animal over the continuation of their species. After all, it’s only wild animals that humans have driven to extinction.

What is an 'animal lover'?

Presumably not shagging them.
How about love spending time with them? That could be prior to making them a meal.
How about love watching them? (As in watching them eat each other)
How about love the 'cycle of life' Lion King style: knowing that animals eat each other.
How about wanting them to have great lives (that doesn't preclude them becoming dinner later).
How about loving their variety: can admire that while eating some.

Since nobody can claim exclusive definition what is an animal lover, I'm not sure OP's friend's view can be proven.