AIBU to suggest that you aren't really an animal lover if you're not a vegan

[KylieKoKo]

I'm a meateater but I was chatting to a vegan friend of mine about this and I think she has a point. It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs when its perfectly possible to live without them. I couldn't help but agree with her, and, as a non-vegan, had to conceed that I don't really love animals. In fact, I'm putting the fact that they taste nice above their lives and well-being on a daily basis.

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone on here had an argument against this.

YNBU if they are purporting to love all animals (not for eating)- by definition the two are mutually exclusive

But A dog or cat lover isn’t necessarily an animal lover

@EileenAlanna

So I can eat raw chicken and nothing bad will happen? I thought that was a no-no due to not killing the bacteria.

@Honflyr to can eat raw chicken to your hearts content if that's what you want. Nothing worse will happen to you than would to any other carnivore/omnivore species that eats uncooked meat - you might get sick or die or you might not. That humans can cook food has cut down on some hazards involved with any & all food sources, one of the reasons why the human species survives longer & in better health than many others, in ever-expanding numbers.

^ you, not to.

It depends how you categorise love I suppose. I like animals, but I wouldn't say I particularly love them, just like I don't love any human just because they are human. I do, however, not wish undue suffering and harm to come to anything on the planet; so I think where you buy your products from is important. It's also, in my mind, important to think of the environment as a whole if you're doing it for the animals. Avacados etc that clearings are made for them (destroying ecosystems) which are then flown half way around the world I don't think are much better ethically.

@EileenAlanna I think @Honflyr's point was if we are supposed to eat meat we should be able to eat it raw 100% of the time without any repercussions.

Most animals that eat raw meat have absolutely no issues unless it's been poisoned.

@scittlescatter I can only eat 46g of carbohydrates a day, I’m six foot and weight 90kg with 11% body fat. A vegan diet could only sustain me if I increased my carbohydrate intake and put myself at risk of blindness, limbloss etc.

@Honflyr that is because grandma isn’t young enough to eat.

It is possible to have a low calorie vegan diet, I'm not sure why there is a misconception that a vegan diet would have to be high carbohydrate. If you have specific dietary requirements I suggest you consult a dietician.

As for the rediculous comment about machine gunning all farm animals: that is about as likely to happen as Boris Johnson becoming a flying pig.

Change is gradual, and results in less farm animals being bred. Farm animals are only bread to be eventually slaughtered. Meat eaters trying to guilt trip vegans by saying that these animals would be slaughtered without them is utter hypocrisy.

@motherheroic
*@EileenAlanna I think @Honflyr's point was if we are supposed to eat meat we should be able to eat it raw 100% of the time without any repercussions.

Most animals that eat raw meat have absolutely no issues unless it's been poisoned.*

Sorry mother, but that is a ridiculous point completely devoid of any realism of the natural world. Most animals that eat raw meat DO have lots of issues from doing so. Such as parasites like worms, fleas, mites, fungal and bacterial infections.

For me it’s a matter of doing less harm rather than no harm which meat eaters can still do.
It’s about reducing rather than cutting out.
And dairy. Milk is not only bad for us (inflammatory) but it’s bad for cows who are raped then torn apart from their calves. So giving up dairy should be a no-brainer.

We probably evolved such an awareness of other animals because we eat them and hunt them. Our methods of farming and killing on such a large scale have changed our relationship with food animals.

I think we can like and enjoy other animals but we have also developed to some eat them and our bodies do find the protein etc in meat easier to digest than plant materials. It’s finding the balance between emotion and the physical needs our bodies have and the way we treat food animals today.

I love my pets, am fascinated by ecology and still enjoy eating meat. I’m still not sure how you’d meet all your vitamin and nutrient needs through only vegan food (would take a lot of reading and planning before I could attempt it.)

@questionablemouse the majority of soy grown in the world is fed to cattle

@questionablemouse source on that. Only 6% of global production for human consumption. www.ucsusa.org/resources/soybeans

I haven't rtft but you friend is wrong you cannot live well on a vegan diet, you have to take supplements. Unless ofcourse you want to die a slow death of b12 deficency. I am not vegan but the ones I know are rattling with pills they have to take each day. I could be vegetarian as I can take or leave meat but I choose to eat it. Oh and I love my animals.

“Farm animals are only bread to be eventually slaughtered. Meat eaters trying to guilt trip vegans by saying that these animals would be slaughtered without them is utter hypocrisy.”

Not really. Farm animals are an integral part of our natural ecosystem. Just by living on the land, they are essential to wild plants and animal life. They are not just raised to be eaten. Chickens, ducks and geese eat insects like ticks, beetles, weevils- pests that threaten crops and also human health. We use feathers for cushions and pillows. Foxes and polecats eat them. Ruminants graze land and fertilise it with dung maintaining many wild herbs/plants and the topsoil needed to grow crops. We use milk for dairy and wool for clothing. Not shearing a sheep of its wool will kill it by a horrible death by flies and larvae eating into their skin & flesh. Etc

Nope, it’s true that if we stopped eating meat, the farm animals would disappear and that would endanger our crop production long term. Look at what happened to the horse. In 1901 before motor vehicles, there were 3,250,000 horses in England. Now there are 170,000 and these only exist because horse riding is a sport and due to some conservation efforts similar to those trying to keep tigers and pandas going. That amounts to a 95% genocide of horses And yes, many were in fact gathered, machine gunned and their corpses burned on bonfires. Because with no use, there was no money to feed and shelter them and the land they stood on was needed for other agriculture.

Which is what vegans would have to do. Not necessarily machine guns, but they’d have to genocide the farm animals to free up their grazing lands for crops. It’s not like we have oodles of extra arable land. So, I agree it’s hypocrisy for vegans to claim they are animal lovers.

I don't love all animals. I don't even love all people. Who does?

cows who are raped then torn apart from their calves.

All sex between wild animals is essentially “rape” you do know that? Because animals do not have the capacity to consent. Have you even seen animals mating on in the wild?
And why the concern about calves going to cow day care and being formula fed while mummy cow goes to work for two hours a day to be milked? You know they are put back together in the field when milking is done? The calf suckling stimulates the milk production.
Humans are “torn” from their babies for 10hrs a day to work too and most human mothers have to feed their babies formula too....

It's called specieism. It is possible to love your dog and want no harm to it but be impartial to cows/chicken. We were raised to see them as a different type of animal, weird and interesting to research but I fully believe that people can love pets and not farm animals due to specieism.

@Honflyr the "frugivores" you mention all eat meat. Chimpanzees like to hunt monkeys.

if we are supposed to eat meat we should be able to eat it raw 100% of the time without any repercussions.
Most animals that eat raw meat have absolutely no issues unless it's been poisoned.

100% for us, but only most animals?

People making such claims should study a little parasitology. Wild animals are often parasitised and do get ill.

It's well known that our evolution has been shaped by the introduction of meat (before we cooked it) in our diets. Only veg and we'd still be at the same level as chimps and gorillas.

@Whatsforu actually b12 doesn't naturally come from meat as such, humans used to get it from running water/soil dirt from veg but with chemicals that clean both that's gone now. Alot of farmed animals like battery chickens dont even get it naturally anymore and are given supplements too which then the meat eater takes. Its actually recommended that most people not just veggies and vegans take B12. What other pills do you think veggies and vegans need? I dont take anything other than that?

@scittlescatter No vegan diet provides adequate calories and nutrients while being under 46g of carbohydrate per day.

Here are some amounts I can eat in an entire day.
80g chickpeas (46g carbs)
150g soya beans (46g carbs)
400g edamame beans (45g carbs)
200g lentils (cooked, not dry 46g carbs)
190g rice (cooked, not dry, 46g carbs)

Just a few, but as you can see 46g of carbs in a day is very little, especially when you consider that all vegetables contain carbohydrates.

As a type one diabetic I am very very closely monitored by a nutritionist and my consultant, as experts in their field they are well aware that for someone like me a vegan diet is only possible if I choose to have high blood sugars. The complications of that are weight gain, sight loss, kidney failure and limb loss.

I like animals from a distance but I can't say I love them. We have a cat and I'm fond of her. Apart from that, I can't be a vegan or even a vegetarian because I'm severely allergic (anaphylaxis) to most plant proteins.

YABU.

I only love some animals. I love my cats doesn't mean I want to eat them