AIBU to suggest that you aren't really an animal lover if you're not a vegan

[KylieKoKo]

I'm a meateater but I was chatting to a vegan friend of mine about this and I think she has a point. It makes no sense to call yourself an animal lover if you pay others to kill animals or take their milk and eggs when its perfectly possible to live without them. I couldn't help but agree with her, and, as a non-vegan, had to conceed that I don't really love animals. In fact, I'm putting the fact that they taste nice above their lives and well-being on a daily basis.

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone on here had an argument against this.

The choice us clear to me. First, do no harm

Another one who does no harm

Vegans not wanting to eat animal products, fine. I totally get it.

But trying to pretend that you’re doing no harm is just bollocks.

Horses are excellent at choosing sources of food to subsidise a nutrient they are lacking, given the resources of course. It's when they're definitely not missing anything it's surprising. Or in the case of salt have an easily available alternative source.

I've not personally witnessed conveyor style slaughter with a captive bolt. But I imagine the failure would be a failure to place it properly. Or crap equipment. Done correctly, they don't fail, it's not like an anaesthetic where the dose might not take.

Although, I have heard of people state that animals are alive after captive bolts, simply because they haven't got a clue how they work.

@letsghostdance That doesn't take into account the vast areas of land suitable for rasing animals but not crops. You can't plant crops on the hill farms that are rasing animals.

@letsghostdance

Vegan diets are not do no harm. Look into palm oil or soy production.

As my DS would say "If we weren't supposed to eat animals, why do they taste of food?"

I don't understand vegans that keep pets. Surely animals should live in the wild, not in your house.

YANBU. And I say this as someone who eats meat and dairy etc. I went through a veggie period because I thought actually eating meat is just basically eating a corpse and we don't need to kill animals just so we can have nice tasting things, it's very selfish. But, you know, I didn't keep it up and started eating meat again - I am selfish, I am prioritising my taste/enjoyment of food over the lives of animals.

why do they taste of food

Seasoned right I'm sure humans taste nice too but we don't do that, perhaps we should preserve those who die who opt to donate their corpse as food?

Yanbu

I know someone who calls herself an animal lover but her favourite restaurant is Nando's which is obviously not high welfare chicken. In her world dogs deserve protecting but chickens don't which is hypocritical to the Max.

Personally I do little bits like buy free range eggs but I don't call myself an animal lover,

@Honflyr human meat kept the rugby boys in the Andes alive when their plane crashed.

I will say I am considering switching from cows milk to plant/nut milk because of the videos I've seen of milking cow's being separated from their calves, chasing after them. Imagine someone ripping your kid away just to forcefully impregnate you again. I've tried a few milks but they've all been disgusting thus far. I want something creamy and sweet for cereal/coffee.

@SkiingIsHeaven ... I am clearly talking about eating humans on a mass scale, as a normal part of life, not out of desperation to keep you alive. Nobody bats an eye if you eat lamb for dinner, but if Grandma died and you served her I think people would be put out.

Yes YABU.

1/10.

eating humans

Cannibals got kuru. Like mad cow disease but from humans.

Yes, I have heard noblegiraffe.

Why do we Brits like to get so het up about people eating a dog or a cat? Sentimentality... The same reason I could eat a cow but not one I've raised from calf myself - emotion. As long as they were killed humanely I suppose it shouldn't matter. As I said, I eat meat and dairy, so do consider myself to be acting immorally, but that's my choice and I do judge myself, I need more willpower!

You know, I do love me a good roast etc. I do also adore my dog. Part of “ husbanding” animals is keeping numbers sustainable. So we eat them. What would happen to them if we didn’t? As humans, we do need easily available protein. We are omnivores. Truthfully, anyone that fond of tofu? Do cows, pigs, chickens fear death? I suppose so. So do we. Does it get us out of it? No.

Barring the physical risk side, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if someone fancied eating me when I died. Or lobbed my body out for a lion pride. Although I'm hoping by the time that happens I'll be too old, scrawny and tough that it would be making stock from grandma, rather than grandma fillet steaks.

Personally, my objection to cannibalism as a normal way of disposing of dead bodies is about the health risks, and the grieving family and friends. Rather than it being dead humans per se.

If sheep weren't reared for their fleece (ie wool) and meat, they wouldn't be bred and look after the hillside pastures; if we didn't use milk from cows for butter,milk, cheese etc and the skin for leather and the meat from beef cattle for meat then we wouldn't need so many green fields to feed and tear them. If we didn't use pretty much everything from a pig except it's oink, they wouldn't live in woodlands and other pastures.
Without farming animals for food and other produce, the U.K. would have far less grassland, pastures and farmland which sustains a huge amount more life than if we didn't farm at all.

We are omnivores

Don't we have more in common with frugivores than omnivores?

@RainbowMum11 - I don’t understand why we need hillside pastures or green fields rather than woodland? I would guess forest also stores more carbon then fields.

From a biomass perspective more energy is used producing 1 calorie of meat than 1 calorie of plant matter. Vegans don’t eliminate animal suffering - as I presume they would still want their meds tested on animals and animals would be killed in the farming of crops. But they probably cause a lot less animal suffering on the whole. Breeding pets probably also causes animal suffering as many pets eat meat.

In order for meat to taste good we have to cook it. What other species on Earth designed to eat meat has to cook it so they don't get ill etc?Frugivores (apes, gorillas, chimpanzees, monkeys, orangutans etc.) thrive mostly on raw fruits, succulent fruit-like vegetables, roots, shoots, nuts and seeds. We don't have claws, massive canines, or the short intestines designed for meat etc. We've more in common with the above listed animals than say bears (omnivors)

@Honflyr humans don't have to cook meat, or any other food. Once humans began to control fire they realised that cooked foods released energy more quickly & efficiently than uncooked & less time was required than by chewing raw food hour after hour. Human teeth are a mix of biting, tearing & grinding teeth, perfect for omnivores.
Cooked meat tastes nicer to me that uncooked, but then so do cooked potatoes or turnips rather than raw. Many people still eat raw meat or fish. Raw liver is often recommended for people with iron deficiencies.

They don't necessarily but if it is grazing land then it is less likely to be built on, and keeps the oxygen production up as well as the drainage needs to help reduce flooding in towns & cities.
A lot of people who live in cities or big towns don't have a clue about how important farming & maintaining our countryside is to the ecosystem, economy and food needs of the U.K. are.