Drinking drugs and smoking whilst being pregnant?

[pennygirl26]

I know someone who is due her baby in Dec. She only found out a few weeks ago she is pregnant.

She had very openly continued to smoke cigarettes and joints,but has been drinking also saying its not anything worse than what she's done in the past 6 months. She's also still taking coke every now and again. What can I do about this? I feel sick every time I see her. The other night I caught her buying a half bottle. It's just so dicgusting I don't know who to go to as I don't want her to know its me.

and then once they have made their decision it should be respected - whatever they choose to do.

FFS. Do you not know what “to respect someone’s decision” means in the English language? It means not to force them to change it, it doesn’t mean you have to agree.

TequilaPilates

You keep throwing this straw man out there: that we advocate doing nothing. That simply isn’t true. I am all for any solution that doesn’t make things worse, or remove the bodily autonomy of women. The fact that there isn’t one makes doing nothing (over and above offering free, extensive support for families in crisis) the best option here.

I'll think you'll find that a pp did exactly say we need to respect their decision

That's why I said 'pretty much' rather than literally nobody tequila. The general tone of the thread hasn't really focused on that, because it's irrelevant. Still, not a shock to see you engage with that rather than any of the posts pointing out the massive logic fails in your argument, or to come up with a better idea than ban alcohol and everyone pretend to think pregnant women don't have bodily autonomy on MN.

I'm glad to see you agree that we should fund better services to prevent this happening, but the ideas you've come up with yourself have been bad enough that it left me wondering whether you were actually engaging in good faith.

Oh of course, that old chestnut.

I'm deemed to have an extreme view of raising the price of alcohol (or even banning it, because frankly it contributes nothing to our lives) and I'm not engaging in good faith.

You on the other hand see no problem in advocating for the rights of women to cause harm to an unborn child but of course are totally engaging in good faith?

FFS. Do you not know what “to respect someone’s decision” means in the English language? It means not to force them to change it, it doesn’t mean you have to agree.

You could equally use the word accept. That does not come with the same connotations as respect does.

tequila I’ll try again. Anything you disagree with here...

Women drinking/smoking excessively during pregnancy is bad.
The effects on the children are bad.
SS should encourage and support women to make better choices.
Children affected by FAS should be well cared for and supported by the state.
Women should not be imprisoned to stop them drinking/smoking in pregnancy.

I agree with that list entirely.

So you actually hold the same position as almost every poster on this thread.

Done.
Bye.

Not the same obviously, but I have been a smoker for 20 years and have never been able to quit.

As soon as I found out I was pregnant I gave up. I just would not be able to withstand the guilt of actively harming my baby for my own selfish addictions.

Anyone who can willingly drink and take drugs once they know they are pregnant, should not be allowed to look after a child.

I hope this woman seeks help

I agree with that list entirely.

And since everyone else appears to agree with it, what exactly are you disagreeing with? This list adds up to women having a right to do what they want to with their bodies, including drinking, smoking or drug-taking during pregnancy.

Tequila you genuinely suggested spending state money on helping children with FAS sue their mothers. That is so unbelievably stupid and pointless that you're inviting people to think you're having a laugh. I actually did conclude that you were engaging in good faith purely because I've seen you on other threads and you don't seem like a troll, but the suggestions you have made are way, way beyond batshit. They are so far beyond batshit that they can barely see it, because they are way out in front.

And sorry, but this includes banning alcohol. I ask again, are you familiar with what happened in the US during Prohibition? Because honestly, the only way anybody could be and yet still support a ban is if they were a staunch supporter of organised crime.

You could equally use the word accept. That does not come with the same connotations as respect does.

Oh, and the word “respect” was used by you on another thread. I copied that post also at directly from you (except the part in brackets). I wondered if you’d argue with yourself. Turned out I was right.

@TequilaPilates I don't feel you are preaching. I agree it is a disgrace and I think the problem is, no one has the absolute answer. I haven't seen many people on here offer a suggestion to the answer.

When people ask about "But what would be the acceptable limit one persons little is a others too much" surely you would go off the recommended guidelines.

The foetus is not a person until delivered legally, everyone is aware of that, but the choice the woman is making is going to affect a person, once they are passed the point of a termination, the intention for that baby to become a person is there.

if a person breaks the law their rights are removed and they are sent to jail as they have done a bad thing and are being punished and rehabilitated. do people believe that should be changed as its against their will?

if a person has a mental health issue they can be sectioned against their will for their own safety for a period of time until they are given the help they need and are no longer a danger, should that be changed as its against their will?

So a woman (who quite clearly isn't well) who is damaging an foetus/ unborn child by drinking over the recommended amount and taking drugs. Maybe should be taken for her own good and the good of the baby and be withdrawn from drugs and alcohol safely with the correct medical professionals to advise.

It's not about reducing a woman rights, she has the right to terminate, she has the right to contraception if she chooses or not if she doesn't but she should not have the right to knowingly cause harm to a foetus/unborn baby.

Regardless of the risk to the baby currently it doesn’t bode well for how she is going to parent when the baby is born if she smokes weed on a daily basis and does coke. SS need to be involved for sure and hopefully she can change her ways.

This won’t end well Op. I posted about a similar subject however the lady I knew was only smoking (although in the half term was also drinking heavily) However I was told to mind my own business and it’s her body. I agree it’s disgusting and I do not care if people think I’m judgemental.

Grotesque and dangerous as tigger's suggestion is, it's at least not a total logic fail. In a way I have more respect for people who, having realised that it isn't possible to believe in the rights of both the woman and foetus, choose the foetus, than I do for people who duck the issue. At least it's honest. There is a certain dignity to that, which is just as well since there's none to be had in chaining a woman to a bed for the duration of the pregnancy. Which is where this eventually takes us.

When people ask about "But what would be the acceptable limit one persons little is a others too much" surely you would go off the recommended guidelines.

No. The question is, when someone goes off the recommended guidelines, what do you do then?

Current NHS advice is that there is "no safe limit" to alcohol use during pregnancy. I'm pregnant. I stopped drinking as soon as I found out however I drank approx 1/3 of a glass of champagne at a dinner for a family member's significant birthday.

I have breached NHS guidelines. Should I be sectioned?

So a woman (who quite clearly isn't well) who is damaging an foetus/ unborn child by drinking over the recommended amount and taking drugs. Maybe should be taken for her own good and the good of the baby and be withdrawn from drugs and alcohol safely with the correct medical professionals to advise.

So imprisonment of a person regardless of their actual state of mental health (no, it’a not enough to state that someone drinking over the recommended guidelines is mentally unwell) or of the legality of their actions?

Yes: grotesque. What happens to their jobs? Their existing children? Their mortgages? Their pets?

You are prepared to definitely destroy lives to mitigate a risk to an unborn child. Interesting.

PurpleDaisies

Your post literally makes no sense. I quit likely have used the word "respect" on other threads because in other contexts I'll no doubt respect someone's decision, but not in this context.

I'm hardly arguing against myself if I say eg I respect your decision to leave your marriage but then I don't respect someone's decision to harm their child am I?

Tequila: respect someone’s decision means accept that they have the right to make it even when you disagree with it. It’s common parlance.

Tigger that post is so batshit I don’t know where to start

When people ask about "But what would be the acceptable limit one persons little is a others too much" surely you would go off the recommended guidelines.

How would the state know which women breeched their 2 units a week?

if a person breaks the law their rights are removed and they are sent to jail as they have done a bad thing and are being punished and rehabilitated. do people believe that should be changed as its against their will?

They are sent to prison for punishment and rehabilitation. They still did the bad thing. It didn’t stop it happening. In this case, throwing the woman in prison is too late to save the baby with FAS

So a woman (who quite clearly isn't well) who is damaging an foetus/ unborn child by drinking over the recommended amount and taking drugs. Maybe should be taken for her own good and the good of the baby and be withdrawn from drugs and alcohol safely with the correct medical professionals to advise.

Taken where? You can easily get booze or drugs in prison, and the criminal justice system is not a suitable place for a pregnant woman.

Rehab? When does that kick in? When the woman is having more than her 2 units a week?

You seriously want to deprive people of their liberty?
Where does it end? What do you think about people with genetic disorders having children, should we lock them away too?

she has the right to terminate

she should not have the right to knowingly cause harm to the foetus

How can she have the right to kill the foetus but not to harm it? that’s completely batshit

What happens to their jobs? Their existing children? Their mortgages? Their pets?

What if they gave no job, no children and no mortgage? And sorry pets should not be more important than a human being, even one not yet born.

TequilaPilates

So we will only lock them up if they are without the trappings of adult life? How is that consistent?

How can she have the right to kill the foetus but not to harm it?

Because a termination does not cause lifelong suffering to a child does it?

seaweedandmarchingbands

Do you know who isn't engaging in good faith? You

Your objections to a pp post where you'll wreck someone's life - what about their job, children, mortgage, pets? Your very post, now you object to someone answering your post.