Drinking drugs and smoking whilst being pregnant?

[pennygirl26]

I know someone who is due her baby in Dec. She only found out a few weeks ago she is pregnant.

She had very openly continued to smoke cigarettes and joints,but has been drinking also saying its not anything worse than what she's done in the past 6 months. She's also still taking coke every now and again. What can I do about this? I feel sick every time I see her. The other night I caught her buying a half bottle. It's just so dicgusting I don't know who to go to as I don't want her to know its me.

I don't drink, no. Nor do I smoke.

What are your solutions then?

I find it shocking that even after specific invitation to do so tequila, you've shown no evidence of giving any thought to all the women who've suffered because of laws, policies and attitudes that place the rights of the foetus above theirs. And proposed batshit policy ideas that would make things even worse. The alcohol pricing idea is another cracker. People will just make their own. It isnt actually that hard. It is potentially very unsafe though.

Also for all the focus on alcohol and drugs, if your focus is on the prevention of children being born with life limiting disability, they're actually nowhere near the top of the risk list. It's entirely possible to drink far too much whilst pregnant, or take coke, and still have a baby showing no evidence of harm. Whereas there are people choosing to bring babies into the world who are guaranteed or have a significant chance of such conditions, because of genetics or choosing to proceed with a pregnancy after a diagnosis.

Now, trying to prevent this breaches my 'things that are/would turn out to be much worse than babies being avoidably born with life limiting conditions' threshold. But you don't appear to have a very robust one of those, soooooo.....

And by the way it’s so rare you’d be punishing the entire country, increasing crime, job losses, death of town centres etc etc to ban alcohol and prevent a tiny number of cases of FAS every year

Slight over reaction?

No solution. Not every problem
In life has a solution. You educate, support and minimise. But there is NO solution.

What are your solutions then?

I literally don’t have any. That’s why I called it tragic. Sometimes the reality is that we don’t have the power, other people do, and sometimes they will not do as we hope they will do.

I'm never going to agree with you that it's ok for a woman to knowingly cause harm to her child.

You seem to think that this is just unavoidable collateral damage in the pursuance of women's rights.

Well I think we also have responsibilities too. This is going nowhere. You're asking the same questions repeatedly and I'm giving the same answers. You don't agree with my answers but none the less they are my answers.

@TequilaPilates your solution would certainly harm my children. Me and DH as well as thousands of others would be out of jobs.

It's not feasible.

The solution is that babies still being born suffering from the impact of maternal alcohol and drug use in utero after we've funded all necessary services (which includes loads of early intervention so children are less likely to grow up to be addicts) are the least worst outcome. And that we should put all the services in place they will need once born. That's it.

Also, whatever else the words you're typing are tequila, they are not answers.

And by the way it’s so rare you’d be punishing the entire country, increasing crime, job losses, death of town centres etc etc to ban alcohol and prevent a tiny number of cases of FAS every year

It's not just FAS though is it? It's the problems of addiction, the social problems alcoholism causes, the physical affects of long term drinking or binge drinking, the violence and fights on a Friday and Saturday night that tie up the police for hours and clog up A and E.

So reducing alcohol consumption would improve far more than just the number of children born with FAS.

Tequila, you’re not giving the same answers: you’re not giving any answers.

1. What should be done if a woman (assuming we believe she is going to drink or take drugs while pregnant) - refuses long-term contraception?
2. By making alcohol very highly priced, are you not increasing the risk of existing children going hungry?
3. By making alcohol illegal, are you not putting more unborn children at risk of their mothers consuming illegally sourced and potentially highly dangerous forms of alcohol?

But anyway, I suspect you are going to say more of the same.

your solution would certainly harm my children. Me and DH as well as thousands of others would be out of jobs.

Why? Do you make alcohol?

This is how those women need to be treated. They need to be given facts (relating to the dangers and risks of alcohol/cigarette use) and have the choices set out in an unbiased way and then once they have made their decision it should be respected - whatever they choose to do.

How can you disagree with this?

By making alcohol very highly priced, are you not increasing the risk of existing children going hungry?

If any parent is prioritising buying alcohol above buying food for their child then that's neglect and the children should be removed.

TequilaPilates

But you are still increasing the risk of that neglect occurring in the first place, yes?

So reducing alcohol consumption would improve far more than just the number of children born with FAS.

It absolutely would, yes. However, where you're going wrong is that you're assuming by making it harder to buy legally, that would reduce consumption. The one doesn't mean the other will happen, and there are other potential negative consequences introduced. Are you familiar with what happened when the US tried introducing Prohibition?

PurpleDaisies

Because those women aren't going to care are they? Do you think they don't already know about the risks?

I've overheard conversations with women saying smoking causes small babies which is good because it won't hurt so much!!!

I don't see why we should respect their decision. Accept it yes because we can't do anything else. Respect it? No.

I would also let SS know so appropriate support can be put in place.

It’s obviously awful what she’s doing but I am in the “pregnant women are not incubators” camp and think an unborn baby should never have priority over the rights of the mother. The right to make choices does include the right to make bad choices. Obviously the risk of harm to the baby is awful but you can’t have a civilised society where women lose their rights to make choices just because their pregnant, or worse are criminalised

Pretty much nobody is saying you have to respect a decision, or feel a certain way about it. You can be as judgy and upset as you like. That's just nowhere near being the point here. Accepting that someone has a right to do something doesn't impose any obligation on you to hold a view on it.

Again, were back to you all advocating to do nothing.

Just accept that babies will be born addicted to drugs and with lifelong disabilities due to alcohol. That's just their too bad isn't it?

That's unusual, most women give up all that when they realise they're pregnant.

I don't think there is anything you can do about it, op, unless you report to social services which others have suggested. She would be likely to deny it if they called around (unless they caught her in the act).

We can only hope that she is drinking and smoking just a very little bit - like one glass and three cigarettes - in years gone by people did that and had healthy babies. However do try to draw her attention to foetal alcohol syndrome, that could put her off drinking alcohol altogether.

As for snorting coke .... well, I don't know what to say, frankly! It's quite shocking.

Pretty much nobody is saying you have to respect a decision,

I'll think you'll find that a pp did exactly say we need to respect their decision

and then once they have made their decision it should be respected - whatever they choose to do.

Accept it yes because we can't do anything else.

Ok, finally we have an answer.

Correct me if I’m wrong...

Women drinking/smoking excessively during pregnancy is bad.
The effects on the children are bad.
SS should encourage and support women to make better choices.
Children affected by FAS should be well cared for and supported by the state.
Women should not be imprisoned to stop them drinking/smoking in pregnancy.

Is there anything there you disagree with.

Far from doing nothing tequila, the people in this thread who have proposed solutions that would actually assist, ie funding better mental health provision, are those of us who have pointed out that a woman has a right to do things that will harm her foetus. You, on the other hand have advocated for spunking state money on helping children with FAS pointlessly sue their mothers and for banning alcohol, one of the least successful policies in the history of the species. Those are both indescribably stupid ideas.

I'm glad to see you agree that we should fund better services to prevent this happening, but the ideas you've come up with yourself have been bad enough that it left me wondering whether you were actually engaging in good faith.