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Original poster

Drinking drugs and smoking whilst being pregnant?

454 replies

pennygirl26 · 19/10/2019 13:11

I know someone who is due her baby in Dec. She only found out a few weeks ago she is pregnant.

She had very openly continued to smoke cigarettes and joints,but has been drinking also saying its not anything worse than what she's done in the past 6 months. She's also still taking coke every now and again. What can I do about this? I feel sick every time I see her. The other night I caught her buying a half bottle. It's just so dicgusting I don't know who to go to as I don't want her to know its me.

OP posts:
Passthecherrycoke · 21/10/2019 12:34

Why would you though?

Why would who do what?

seaweedandmarchingbands · 21/10/2019 12:34

I have no idea what you are talking about. Foetuses don’t have rights. What rights do you believe they should have, and how should they be enforced?

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 12:36

What I find shocking is that after my post about the 3 siblings the only responses were "what should have been done" "what do you want ss to have done".

No questions about the children. No comment on their lives or how they've been affected nor about the affects on their adoptive parents.

It's like they just don't matter.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 21/10/2019 12:37

TequilaPilates

They matter. Now, since they seem to matter more to you than the rest of us (Hmm) what do you, the person lecturing everyone else, think should have been done to prevent harm to them?

PurpleDaisies · 21/10/2019 12:39

Of course they matter. Those questions aren’t appropriate to ask on an own discussion forum where the story might be recognisable. I’ve worked with children with FAS anyway. I know what the answers will be. Of course their lives matter. That’s not what’s being discussed here. It’s how that should have been prevented. You still haven’t said how you think that could have herb achieved.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 12:41

I've already said. The mother should have been supported in having long term contraception, particularly as she said she didn't want children apparently.

At least then 2 of them would not have born into this.

Increase the price of alcohol so that it's not so available. Make it virtually unaffordable.

PurpleDaisies · 21/10/2019 12:41

What if she declined long term contraception? What if she drank anyway?

Tableclothing · 21/10/2019 12:42

No one is saying the children don't matter. I think most of us are taking that as obvious.

I thought we were discussing the ethical principles that guide SS involvement. I was trying to understand exactly what ethical principles you are a proponent of. I found it a bit difficult to get you to articulate this explicitly, so then asked you what you think should be done in a given situation.

It sounds like you think that women should be offered help to make healthier choices, but you don't think they should be forced into it.

Which is pretty much the same as what everyone else in the thread has said.

In your example, if the mother wasn't able to give up alcohol with support and didn't choose to make the contraceptive choices you would have wanted her to make... Everything would be the same as it is. And it would be you explaining to the 3 kids that they are where they are because you didn't overrule the mother's right to make her own choices.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 12:43

PurpleDaisies

What do we do for these children then to support them throughout their lives? What help do they get?

Passthecherrycoke · 21/10/2019 12:43

She will already have been encouraged to take on a long term contraception and many addicts and vulnerable women successfully do so. Many refuse which is their right.

These aren’t new ideas. They already happen

seaweedandmarchingbands · 21/10/2019 12:43

The mother should have been supported in having long term contraception, particularly as she said she didn't want children apparently.

What you mean by “supported”?

And the problem with making alcohol virtually unaffordable is that people would buy it anyway. Alcoholics would, anyway. But that’s a different argument because it would affect everyone equally. Well, except very rich people.

PurpleDaisies · 21/10/2019 12:44

What do we do for these children then to support them throughout their lives? What help do they get?

Not enough. It should be funded better.

This is not what the thread is about.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 12:47

What if she declined long termcontraception?

Apparently she repeatedly said that she didn't want children. Maybe much more work should have been done with her around counseling etc to encourage her to use long term contraception?

What if she drank anyway?

Well, increase the price so that it becomes virtually unaffordable. She might still have drunk but not in sufficient quantities to cause the harm that she did.

Or you know, we could just shrug and say well they're going to drink and carry on having babies so nothing we can do.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 12:48

And the problem with making alcohol virtually unaffordable is that people would buy it anyway. Alcoholics would, anyway. But that’s a different argument because it would affect everyone equally. Well, except very rich people.

It would be much more difficult for them to buy it though wouldn't it if it was £20 for a bottle of wine.

PurpleDaisies · 21/10/2019 12:49

Maybe much more work should have been done with her around counseling etc to encourage her to use long term contraception?

And what if she still says no? That’s her right.

Well, increase the price so that it becomes virtually unaffordable. She might still have drunk but not in sufficient quantities to cause the harm that she did.

Again, drinkers find a way.

You really don’t get it.

Tableclothing · 21/10/2019 12:50

Where I am midwives ask at booking in about drug and alcohol use and refer women to the perinatal mental health team where relevant. They also offer contraception to post natal women. Those are already done.

Raising the price of alcohol? So it's OK for children of wealthy people to get FAS? Or you accept the likely rise in crime when people addicted to alcohol have to steal it? Or are you OK with alcohol-addicted mothers turning to prostitution?

It is so easy to say "unborn children shouldn't be exposed to harm" - well, in an ideal world, obviously that would never happen. But in the real world, it is always more complicated.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 21/10/2019 12:50

But Tequila, this is about all children/foetuses, not just one. If a woman declines contraception, she cannot be forced to use it. If she declines counselling, she cannot be made to go. We all support robust support services on this thread, as far as I can see, but the line is coercion, and that means - tragically - that some children will be at risk of in utero harm. There is no way around it other than force.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 12:51

Ok. You're right.

Let's not do anything.

Let's maintain drinkers rights to drink. Let's just accept that some women will drink and take drugs during pregnancy, cause lifelong harm to their children and carry on having baby after baby.

There's nothing we can do about this. Just remove the children into care and then kick them out at age 18 to get on with it.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 21/10/2019 12:53

Let's maintain drinkers rights to drink. Let's just accept that some women will drink and take drugs during pregnancy, cause lifelong harm to their children and carry on having baby after baby.

Repeat: what is the other option? If I had the power to prevent those harms without coercing women and removing their choices, I would. I am not sure how I can do anything about them otherwise.

PurpleDaisies · 21/10/2019 12:53

Let's just accept that some women will drink and take drugs during pregnancy, cause lifelong harm to their children and carry on having baby after baby.

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT.

Passthecherrycoke · 21/10/2019 12:54

You can make your own alcohol for pennies. If it were extremely expensive there would be a rampant bootleg market.

Price increases in Scotland have been great at stopping binge drinking, borderline drinkers etc. But chronic alcoholics? No way. How do you think heroin addicts fund their £200 a day habits? Because it’s the children of chronic users who get FAS (which is, by the way very rare, although FASD is more common)

Passthecherrycoke · 21/10/2019 12:54

Actually I don’t know why I’m bothering. You’re determined to be contrary and don’t have any answers

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 12:56

Ban alcohol and cigarettes altogether. They wouldn't be allowed now if they'd just been invented.

Failing that make them so expensive that they can't be bought in sufficient quantities to do so much harm. Yes, some will still afford it but the numbers will be much lower

2 ideas to try to prevent harm to these children.

You appear to be advocating maintaining the status quo.

seaweedandmarchingbands · 21/10/2019 12:58

Prohibition was tried and failed. People find ways to support their addictions, and criminalising them makes it less likely they will get help.

I take it you’re a lifelong teetotaller?

Passthecherrycoke · 21/10/2019 12:59

Alcohol is extremely expensive and it’s sale fairly restricted in day, Norway. Scandinavia have some of the highest cases of FAS in the world

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