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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that these are not signs that we live in poverty.

328 replies

Tweedledeedumb · 19/10/2019 09:43

Had an unexpected phone called from DS's school.
All year 7's were given a survey and my sons answers indicated that we might be in need and the school were offering friendly help. It turns out that the questions that he responded no to were:

Do we have a dishwasher
Do we have a microwave
How many holidays abroad has DS had this year.

AIBU that these are not an indicator or poverty. I have never seen dishwashers or microwaves as necessary.

Both I had in the past and never used them. It is personal choice not to own them and we do perfectly well without.

As for the holidays, why is going abroad necessary when we have amazing places in the UK. Fair enough if they said holiday in the last 2 years but for all they know, I may have had 6 holidays last year.

I work in education so not knocking the school as we see these things all the time but this had to be the most ridiculous one to date.

The school said that it was fine and it was just to flag those needed help and they couldn't ask the children if their parents struggled to pay bills.

What do you think? Are these questions useful?

OP posts:
CAG12 · 19/10/2019 15:46

Very odd question choices probably made up by someone from middle class background.

Actual indicators of poverty should probably include -

  • do you have enough food at home for dinner?
  • how often do you get new clothes?

The more im typing this the more outraged im becomming at this school! Id want to talk to someone about it and try to understand their perspective of poverty

477964z · 19/10/2019 15:47

Yes, I know. I was using ‘convenient’ as shorthand for being more efficient in both time and money.

I agree the three questions laid out seem strange, but I wouldn’t like to judge without seeing the entire questionnaire or reading about the rationale/evidence behind it. And I can’t find anything online. Wonder if the school came up with it in line with their pupil demographics.

LauraMacArthur · 19/10/2019 15:47

They're not the right questions are they? I hope the other questions were more relevant - but still sensitive.

TottieandMarchpane · 19/10/2019 15:48

I can’t really think of any way of asking DC pertinent questions sensitively enough.

They’d do better to interview the parents by phone. They must be ringing half the parents anyway if this is the bar they’ve set for follow up.

477964z · 19/10/2019 15:48

CAG12 I think most kids are self aware enough to not want to drop their parents in it if they’re directly asked whether there’s ‘enough food at home’. Plus the shame and stigma of poverty. And kids who only have access to a kettle and pot noodles every single night would answer that they do have enough food at home for dinner.

Mrs1 · 19/10/2019 15:48

What if you didnt like flying? That's a crazy questionnaire to try and gage who is struggling. I could think of far more useful ways of going about finding out who is in need

NoSquirrels · 19/10/2019 15:49

It’s probably the case that ‘no’ to any three questions triggers further investigation. I doubt it’s left to the ‘marker’s judgment which three might indicate an issue and which three might be okay in conjunction.

But that’s a stupid system! Without a) crafting an intelligent questionnaire and b) interpretating the results, it’s pointless.

Market research and analysis is a skill.

daisypond · 19/10/2019 19:56

In my area having a freezer would be unusual. People don’t have space in the kitchen and we don’t have garages or outbuildings. I don’t know anyone off the top of my head with a freezer apart from a compartment as part of the fridge.

LaurieMarlow · 19/10/2019 20:03

Having a microwave isn't a good thing ? Would you me think no home cooked meals ? Only junk?

Not true.

I cook almost entirely from scratch but use my microwave to help prepare fresh food and also for batch cooked food from the freezer.

CSIblonde · 19/10/2019 20:08

How nosey: & un-inforned. I taught for years in a really disadvantaged poor area & every child had a telly in their bedroom as well as the family TV & microwaves etc!! Bonkers. IME stuff like that was as viewed as a basic & prioritised. The maternity grant often went on a new wide-screen TV as they'd already got baby stuff they re-used.

LaurieMarlow · 19/10/2019 20:50

The OP doesn’t mention TVs though, so not sure why that’s relevant.

Ohthatsfabulousdarling · 19/10/2019 21:01

Absofuckinglutely bonkers.

How about taking a look at children and seeing those who have clothes that don't fit? Aren't fit for use? Aren't looking or smelling as clean as they could?
Those who are hungry,
Those who are in receipt of FSM?
Check because of those reasons, not because a child doesn't have a microwave in their home, or a dishwasher, or hasn't been abroad this year!

Ohthatsfabulousdarling · 19/10/2019 21:11

Also, when we were living in dire poverty we had a microwave because the cooker in our house wasn't in working condition.
No we didn't go abroad, and no we didnt have a dishwasher, but if you need all 3 to be classed as in need we wouldn't have reached that threshold despite not having the money to pay the private rent on a minuscule house which had so much damp and mould, I still could not afford to heat, and feed us.
Such a rubbish questionnaire to figure out who is and who is not doing ok financially.

formerbabe · 19/10/2019 21:16

A far better question would be to ask if the family has a washing machine.

bridgetreilly · 19/10/2019 21:19

But those weren't the only questions asked, were they, OP? Just the only ones where your son's answers sparked a query. Presumably they also asked about things like new clothes, how many do you share a bedroom with, do you have a car, and so on. I think it's probably a good thing for schools to do this kind of survey and then discreetly follow up whenever there's a possible concern, in case there are children who actually do need help.

PooWillyBumBum · 19/10/2019 21:23

Ha. Just laugh and move on. DD would poss be flagged.

We are a six fig income family without a microwave. On Monday we head to Yorkshire for our first family holiday this year (had to cancel summer ones due to HG in pregnancy). Massive eye roll.

PooWillyBumBum · 19/10/2019 21:25

Also we got our first TV 18 months ago (DD is 11). We may be freaks but we aren’t poor,

Butterbeeeen · 19/10/2019 21:25

Iv never had a dishwasher, only got a microwave around 3 years ago and holidays are always in the UK and normally in a tent. I am right up shit creek if school call.

Willow2017 · 19/10/2019 21:52

Ridiculous!
I have never had a dishwasher in my life and I somehow survived.
Microwave packed in 2yrs ago and didn't replace as it took up too much room anyway.

My teens have been abroad twice but all over the UK for great holidays. Does that mean I am doing it wrong?
There was a time when I went without to feed my kids fresh made meals daily, buy thier clothes etc but i would have been annoyed if my kids were forced to fill in a questionnaire like that to find out if we were 'poor' or not!

That useless survey came out of education funding at what cost? What idiot thinks anyone without a dishwasher or microwave must be poor?
There are many more obvious indicators that families are struggling to get by. It's not rocket science.
I would also expect the school to ask if it was ok for my kids to give out personal info first. If it was discussed in class then some kids would go home worried that thier parents had money worries just because they don't have a bloody dish washer!

Drabarni · 19/10/2019 22:06

Never had a dishwasher, our microwave has just died and we've decided we don't need another cluttering up the kitchen.

tabulahrasa · 19/10/2019 22:17

The thing is if you’re designing questions to work out if there are children living in poverty they would need to be about things that have other fairly standard reasons for people not having them...

Children are aware that most people have ovens, washing machines, coats... the things are definitely indicators of poverty, so they’ll be more honest about things that are more often choices.

So say no to so many and then the school can check in to see if it’s just by choice, or because there’s an issue...

It makes sense to me that it’s fairly random stuff rather than actual indicators of deprivation.

imoverworkedandunderpaid · 20/10/2019 00:30

Wow, I'm with the rest of you - ridiculous!

Although we do have a dishwasher, it's up to this individual whether they want them, I would never judge someone for not having one.

As for holidays abroad, we have chosen not to have those, as I'm not a fan of unnecessary air travel and I think the money could be better spent on the house, or on uk breaks - very much personal choice.

It's comical that could indicate poverty.

GunpowderGelatine · 20/10/2019 01:19

WTF!!!

I don't have a microwave because I have no use for one, and considering replacing the dishwasher with a cupboard because honestly it's just as well washing plates. I actually enjoy holidays in the UK as can't be doing with the hassle of flying. We are certainly not in poverty, DC are privately educated! Terrible markers, I could think of loads of better markers if they had to ask, like "do your clothes fit" "Do you get 3 meals a day" etc

BadSun · 20/10/2019 02:13

I have two young kids and a house not plumbed for a dishwasher. I dream of the day I can move. I would offer anyone without a dishwasher help!!!

SaucyTomato · 20/10/2019 02:32

I would have replied that I don't have any of those things, nor do I travel abroad due to environmental reasons. I'm reducing my carbon footprint for the children's future.

I actually do have those items and I holiday abroad, but it's not an indication of poverty not to have.
Bloody ridiculous questions.