To ask: what could Extinction Rebellion do to convince you?

[WallyWallyWally]

So another series of XR stunts unfolded today: a tree surgeon climbs Big Ben and unfurls a banner. Some other activists have chained themselves to the door of the Kenyan embassy. A big wooden tipi has been constructed to block Oxford Circus. In the crowds, people have been painting their hands red and are leaving handprints on pavements to symbolise... something.

They’ve camped out in public places. Climbed on top of trains and planes Performed various theatrical performances. They’ve marched and glued themselves to buildings. Held up traffic, waved banners, got kids to stay off school.

What XR want Is: for governments to declare a climate emergency, for actions to be taken to address this and for citizens assemblies to be set up to decide what these actions should be.

I’m not arguing about the science of climate heating (I’m convinced). I’m not asking them not to be hypocrites (it’s impossible to live a truly green lifestyle within our society as it is).

So: what could XR do to convince you of the right-ness of their cause? What action should they take? What campaigns / stunts / awareness raising can they do that would convince you that the house is on fire? To the extent that you would lobby your MP / campaign / join them?

They could stick to their message and stop others leaping on the any-chance-to-protest bandwagon. I agree with XR's core statement (although it's completely unachievable) but I'm fed up of the rent-a-mob protests. Alongside the genuine climate change activists, there are now hundreds of generic anti capitalist / anti Tory protestors hijacking the whole thing. And their methods are deplorable and childish, picking soft targets and pissing off ordinary people.

I’m saying that more consumers will make changes if it’s in the media. Consumer changes result in changes in demand and better choices.

It is the opposite of the personal. It is mass behaviour change I’m interested in and I know how hard it is to get traction and change.

I don't mind them protesting, we have a proud tradition of peaceful protest in this country. But the message is not clear because it can't be clear, because noone understands fully why climate change is happening.

I don’t see consumer change as everything but it is an important part of the pie if you divide it up.

Supply of better goods and services is good but you need the right demand.

If you’re a scientist you might be more up to date with the complexity of it.

It’s not my area but I have been around behaviour change at work so it’s just what I respond to.

I’m always interested to hear more from scientists than just they’re all wankers posts.

I think the teens/tweens of today are very conscious of the issues.

Some are. The others are organising balloon releases.

Consumer changes result in changes in demand and better choices.

But that is what is happening. Environmental issues are more and more on people’s minds, and as a result there is much more choice around sustainable products.

That said, the research indicates that people aren’t interested in environmental issues until they reach a certain degree of comfort in their own lives. That is why this cause is such a middle-class issue. You have to be able to put food on your table and feed your kids and not be consumed with worry about next month’s rent to even start to worry about “climate change”. Which is another reason why I find XR’s tactics so disgusting.
They are disrupting the lives of the people who can least afford it. Stopping people on zero hour contracts from getting to work. Disrupting the flights of people who’ve saved up all year to take their families on holiday. And then telling those people that they’re doing it for their own good. It is truly horrible.

If you want to get more people interested, make them richer. Help them to have the lifestyles that others already enjoy. That’s it, really.

When the bad weather hits, they'll go home

The fact is XR are damaging the image of the environmental lobby. Care of the environment and sustainability are now mainstream. Ridiculous stunts on the underground associate the origin of the message with the fringe. Not to mention how many extra car journeys did the tube stunt cause?

Exactly Jilly. Because people are reading about it on the front page and hearing about it as first report on the news. Now in a way that didn’t happen before - even when scientists were saying the same things. Therefore in people’s minds. That’s why I’m for it. That said XR is not entirely within my comfort zone.

Isn’t there info that says the richer we get the more impact we have on the environment. Maybe there is a wealth zone where the best result is met.

It isn't more important than anything else when you're poor.

A poor person's highest priorities are keeping a roof over their heads, having food, heat, light and getting to the places (work, job centre) that enables them to get the money that achieves that.

It isn't more important than anything else when you're sick.

A sick person's highest priorities are getting treatment, and managing the symptoms so that they can have food, heat, light and getting to the places (work, job centre, hospital, pharmacy, physio) that enables them to get access to the professionals and the money that achieves that.

They're talking about survival of the planet. The planet will be fine, bar an asteroid strike, a megavolcano eruption or three or being cleared for a interstellar bypass by a pan galactic race of civil servants with a penchant for poetry. The current inhabitants as a whole, not so much. But when somebody is at the sharp end of feeding, housing and clothing themselves, that day to day existence is their personal survival - and that takes priority.

XR come across as self appointed white saviours. XR are negatively affecting the poorest people in society whilst, quite frankly, demonstrating they have significant personal economic and physical security. They aren't on the bones of their arse, trying to make ends meet and wondering whether they'll still have a job when they finally get to work because somebody is physically preventing them from getting there. They've got a day off, they've already covered their rent/mortgage/food/clothes/face paint and costumes budget for the month. Their physical and material needs are already met - and they are going on to prevent others from meeting their own needs.

If I have enough money to cover my rent, heat, light, council tax, travel to work, work clothes/shoes and medical treatment (all of which are non-negotiable), I will make decisions which attempt to minimise my environmental impact, but if my choice is pay this month's rent or not, then I am not going to be spending seventy quid on a reusable water bottle and telling work I'm not coming in on Friday because I'm going to be glueing myself to a Tube with a tube of cyanoacrylate which isn't in the slightest bit environmentally friendly and preventing thousands of other poor people from being able to pay for their rent, heat, light and food this month.

That is why this cause is such a middle-class issue. You have to be able to put food on your table and feed your kids and not be consumed with worry about next month’s rent to even start to worry about “climate change”.

Unfortunately I think there is a degree of truth in this. But that's one of the reasons we can't just rely on people to "do the right thing". There does need to be political/legislative change.

I think the teens/tweens of today are very conscious of the issues.

Some are. The others are organising balloon releases.

Yes I think you're right and there is a stark contrast between those who are thinking about their diets and their impact on the planet and those who are spending a fortune on single use clothing and instagramming their latest hair extensions.

If it has more impact on the middle class I don’t see it as a bad thing. More likely to fly for business and leisure for a start.

There is nothing ER can do to convince me. I’ve lost all respect for them.

Yes Marsha - certainly there is direct correlation between a country’s CO2 output increasing and child mortality rates dropping. You bring up standards of living and the environmental impact (if one chooses to see
It in that way) increases. For me that is a price worth paying.

Really we should all get behind nuclear - clean safe cheap efficient energy with less impact. IMO is really a cause worth supporting.

There does need to be political/legislative change.

Such as what?

Such as what?

Ensuring that cleaner energy sources/offsetting becomes compulsory, invest more in wind and tidal energy (and nuclear), legislating to remove the number of diesel and petrol, vehicles on the roads, bringing in schemes to encourage recycling, widening the types of recycling and removing the confusion around what can and cannot be recycled, increasing the number of cities with congestion charges, improving public transport options, encouraging cycling by improving cycling routes, planting trees and re-wilding areas, educating and encouraging less meat intensive diets, preventing excessive food packaging etc, etc

Being frank for most adults and kids/ teens , it's simply a day off school/ work to doss and look productive.

This protests are not solely hitting the middle classes that are impacting working people getting to work.

Jillyhilly everything you say about nuclear is true except it being cheap and safe, you just have to look at the travails at Flamanville, Okiluuto and Hinckley Point to see how cheap new nuclear builds are. And while it goes wrong very seldom on a MWh generated basis, when it goes wrong it goes very very very wrong and as a result cannot be insured without government underwriting and guarantees.

I hope the new generation of smaller reactors is truly cheap and safe but we're not there yet.

They are massively undermining the hard work climate change activists have been doing for years. No sympathy from me or the majority of the general public, putting the cause back years!

The disruption caused is nothing compared to the economic collapse that will occur if nothing is do

But things are being done so your point is?

It wouldn’t matter if all of us in the UK today went to live in the woods and ate berries and caught our own food and travelled on horse back.
We are a tiny little island nation.

We are not the biggest problem.

It wouldn’t matter if all of us in the UK today went to live in the woods and ate berries and caught our own food and travelled on horse back.
We are a tiny little island nation. We are not the biggest problem.

But this attitude is what persuades people not to bother doing anything.

Nothing.

If what they say is true then no way is the global
Population going to set their life styles back enough to make any difference.

Therefore I intend to live and enjoy my life to the fullest and most convenient whilst I am here.

I do t have kids so I really don’t care what happens when I’m gone. The earth will survive, maybe humans won’t hit that wont be a bad thing.