To ask: what could Extinction Rebellion do to convince you?

[WallyWallyWally]

So another series of XR stunts unfolded today: a tree surgeon climbs Big Ben and unfurls a banner. Some other activists have chained themselves to the door of the Kenyan embassy. A big wooden tipi has been constructed to block Oxford Circus. In the crowds, people have been painting their hands red and are leaving handprints on pavements to symbolise... something.

They’ve camped out in public places. Climbed on top of trains and planes Performed various theatrical performances. They’ve marched and glued themselves to buildings. Held up traffic, waved banners, got kids to stay off school.

What XR want Is: for governments to declare a climate emergency, for actions to be taken to address this and for citizens assemblies to be set up to decide what these actions should be.

I’m not arguing about the science of climate heating (I’m convinced). I’m not asking them not to be hypocrites (it’s impossible to live a truly green lifestyle within our society as it is).

So: what could XR do to convince you of the right-ness of their cause? What action should they take? What campaigns / stunts / awareness raising can they do that would convince you that the house is on fire? To the extent that you would lobby your MP / campaign / join them?

I was in Westminster yesterday. XR are the current group of hypocritical anarchists. They amount of environmental damage they do with their polyester tents, clothes and flags along with the rubbish they leave strewn around is indefensible.
Stopping ordinary working people getting to their jobs doesn't help anyone. Kicking a commuter in the head shows that some are not peaceful.
Someone mentioned them being today's Swampy. He is one of them.
How can they justify spraying a building with red dye? That dye went straight into the nearby drains and in to the water system. What was the environmental impact of that?

I am very worried about the state of our planet. I will continue to minimise me and my family's impact on the planet. I will support government initiatives to reduce environmental damage etc but support XR? No

I overheard them being described as "grim hippies and anarchists using climate change as an excuse to set up free raves across London and piss of the police" I think it was quite accurate. They have accheived absolutely nothing.

31kjhkj - just to give you on RL scenario to your "solutions" .
Cars: I have a 40 mile round trip to work, Monday to Friday. Yes, I drive a dirty diesel car. This car uses actually less fuel on the same journey than my previous petrol car (in defence, the petrol car was 5 years older but similar size engine).
I live in a "minimum wage area", as a result I have to travel for work to get a half decent wage and live somewhere affordable. The alternative would be relying on the state to supplement my income...
I'd love to use public transport, but it's 90 minutes one way 4 changes for bus use - no trains available from my town to the nx town.
I'd love to buy an electric car, but simply can't afford it. I also question the environmental impact on producing something new v already here.
It's catch 22. Nothing is straight forward.
But as I said up thread, it's up to us to teach the nx generation to look after our planet. It's about little things that multiplied by 1000's that will make a difference.

Being frank for most adults and kids/ teens , it's simply a day off school/ work to doss and look productive and to virtue signal on social media.

As dd said, if you haven't got a photo of you at the XR protests, are you even a teenager?

Such as what?

Plus

incentivise insulation for properties, reintroduce solar tariffs, invest in making retrofit solar affordable, make it compulsory for all new homes and other buildings to be ultra insulated, have solar panels and reuse household water, encourage green roof office buildings, put environmental tariffs on flights, increase awareness about the massively damaging impact of cloud storage which could be reduced overnight by people reducing email traffic and clearing their inboxes, reduce street lighting, ensure train fares are affordable..

There is loads that could be done through legislative change

Can’t be arsed to RTFT sorry but I work in an industry they are attacking and absolutely nothing they can change or do will make a difference other than turn people away.

I’ve tried to engage with them but they have no specific asks for us to answer, no plans, no direct actions we can take to get them to lay off.

What they (and people) don’t get is we are already making change? Do they think nothing is being done? A hell of a lot of focus is going on aiming for net zero emissions, on changing plastic usage. We are already doing it all!

All they are doing is making people in the industry think “fuck off what’s the point in engaging?”. And diverting funds away from actually making the changes we are already making into communicating those changes to shut people up!

Greta and co are losing their angel halo status- it's quite funny how counter protestors are turning out for her gigs in Canada.

It wouldn’t matter if all of us in the UK today went to live in the woods and ate berries and caught our own food and travelled on horse back.
We are a tiny little island nation. We are not the biggest problem

But this attitude is what persuades people not to bother doing anything

But isn’t that what ER are saying we should do?

Myself and colleagues were around Westminster for meetings yesterday.

I saw many XR members in Pret / Starbucks, getting coffee in disposable cups. I saw some in Tesco buying salads in plastic pots.

There's just no thought about public perception.

But isn’t that what ER are saying we should do?

No

Shows how clear their messaging is if some people think XR are telling us to not bother with recycling etc! Although that impression is easy to get from some posts here as well tbh.

Is there any evidence that shows that if we were to stop using fossil fuels entirely, that climate change would slow down?

The problem with the legislative changes which get suggested is they are all "encouraging". Tariffs intended to reduce car use, encourage recycling etc. Peoplr don't change behaviour because often the alternatives are too costly, either in financial terms or time. If you live in poverty and driving 10 miles to work means you have time to get to a second job/not pay for childcare, you are not going to swap to a much slower cycle commute.

Um, they don’t need to “convince” me. We’re facing a climate catastrophe FFS, in case you hadn’t noticed!

This post from @MitziK deserves reposting:

It isn't more important than anything else when you're poor.

A poor person's highest priorities are keeping a roof over their heads, having food, heat, light and getting to the places (work, job centre) that enables them to get the money that achieves that.

It isn't more important than anything else when you're sick.

A sick person's highest priorities are getting treatment, and managing the symptoms so that they can have food, heat, light and getting to the places (work, job centre, hospital, pharmacy, physio) that enables them to get access to the professionals and the money that achieves that.

They're talking about survival of the planet. The planet will be fine, bar an asteroid strike, a megavolcano eruption or three or being cleared for a interstellar bypass by a pan galactic race of civil servants with a penchant for poetry. The current inhabitants as a whole, not so much. But when somebody is at the sharp end of feeding, housing and clothing themselves, that day to day existence is their personal survival - and that takes priority.

XR come across as self appointed white saviours. XR are negatively affecting the poorest people in society whilst, quite frankly, demonstrating they have significant personal economic and physical security. They aren't on the bones of their arse, trying to make ends meet and wondering whether they'll still have a job when they finally get to work because somebody is physically preventing them from getting there. They've got a day off, they've already covered their rent/mortgage/food/clothes/face paint and costumes budget for the month. Their physical and material needs are already met - and they are going on to prevent others from meeting their own needs.

If I have enough money to cover my rent, heat, light, council tax, travel to work, work clothes/shoes and medical treatment (all of which are non-negotiable), I will make decisions which attempt to minimise my environmental impact, but if my choice is pay this month's rent or not, then I am not going to be spending seventy quid on a reusable water bottle and telling work I'm not coming in on Friday because I'm going to be glueing myself to a Tube with a tube of cyanoacrylate which isn't in the slightest bit environmentally friendly and preventing thousands of other poor people from being able to pay for their rent, heat, light and food this month.

Couldn't say it better myself really. It's the point I made with my earlier post which @HelenaDove reposted. (Thanks for that by the way Helena).

@CatherineOfAragon, any post that manages to work a Hitchhikers reference into it is worthy of reposting 😜 Bravo @MitziK

Absolutely nothing. They're an abomination.

And I really don't like to say it, I really really don't, but if one more very privileged white person actively prevents me, as a woman of colour, from engaging with and making the most of the capitalist economy by getting to work, earning a very average crust, and trying to make the best of my life, then attempts to lecture me about hard life is going to get - I, who have experienced direct racism and tge difficulties inherent within, then I'm afraid I might end up on the news myself.

Plus I find this taking pride in being arrested alien to me. My brother who suffers from selective mutism and uni-lateral hearing loss was once removed from a train for stupidly using my mothers oyster, but despite writing his address down and providing my sister's phone number, he was not simply given a fine and a stern talking to. Oh no. He was taken to the POLICE STATION and finger printed. My mother had to pick him up. People said it was because he 'refused' to talk to them. Yes. Months it took for him to get over it.

Now I appreciate my struggle is none of their business, but the fact they can be so casual about it grates me sorry. Clearly the reason they can be so nonchalant about confronting the police is again, because of their colour. Plus they take up police resources and divert police from being able to work in areas with a high knife crime rate, which unfortunately in London disproportionately affects children of colour.

So I'm sorry but on this occasion XR represent blatant white privilege, a term I don't like using but I really can't describe it any other way. There certainly nothing they can say to be that would make me listen to them unless they start coming with viable commonsense solutions that aren't based on worst case data and projections and unworkable and unrealistic slogans (the whole world going vegan, HIOF etc). And not create ideas which would have to make the poor poorer in order to be feasible.

CaveMum

police said. Autocorrect

"grim hippies and anarchists using climate change as an excuse to set up free raves across London and piss of the police"

Snort. That sounds like Mike Graham?

I don't think the science is conclusive and they are pretty fascist/anarchist and they are mostly middle-class hypocrites, but... I have to applaud them for getting this issue front and centre. They are at least partially responsible for the current wave of ecological awareness, long may it live.

When they can explain to me how everyone is going to be able to heat their homes and pay for their food once cars are off the road and we can only use wind or sun for power. And don't say electricity as gas and coal are burned to make electricity, so it's only electricity from sun and wind.
Then, when few are able to work , where are taxes to come from to pay for our public services. So basically we go back to some sort of self sufficient life of say 1850 . And once we are poor, hungry , with limited hospitals etc, how do we persuade the rest of the world, mainly the western, todothe same.

@CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook I can 100% appreciate your view.

kjhkj Sounds like a good list for a start

Great post mitzi