To ask: what could Extinction Rebellion do to convince you?

[WallyWallyWally]

So another series of XR stunts unfolded today: a tree surgeon climbs Big Ben and unfurls a banner. Some other activists have chained themselves to the door of the Kenyan embassy. A big wooden tipi has been constructed to block Oxford Circus. In the crowds, people have been painting their hands red and are leaving handprints on pavements to symbolise... something.

They’ve camped out in public places. Climbed on top of trains and planes Performed various theatrical performances. They’ve marched and glued themselves to buildings. Held up traffic, waved banners, got kids to stay off school.

What XR want Is: for governments to declare a climate emergency, for actions to be taken to address this and for citizens assemblies to be set up to decide what these actions should be.

I’m not arguing about the science of climate heating (I’m convinced). I’m not asking them not to be hypocrites (it’s impossible to live a truly green lifestyle within our society as it is).

So: what could XR do to convince you of the right-ness of their cause? What action should they take? What campaigns / stunts / awareness raising can they do that would convince you that the house is on fire? To the extent that you would lobby your MP / campaign / join them?

Mine are country children so are aware of the seasons and living with the earth. Recycling is a way of life.

I get frustrated with these conversations because there’s so much vagueness. The message amounts to “people aren’t doing anything and they need to do something” - which, on both an individual and government level is a massive overgeneralisation. “Force through some actual change” - what change? How? And what are the impacts and ramifications on people’s lives NOW? This is what sensible grown-up people have to think through. XR comes across as neither sensible nor grown-up.

This is a massively complex issue, the science is NOT clear, and even if it was nobody would know what to do about it. But XR people always act as if this is a simple problem which bad people (the government and corporations) are too greedy and selfish to solve. And that is the perspective of a child - juvenile and immature.

For what it’s worth did have a conversation about thus at work this week. I’m in London and the discussion was about people’s annoyance at getting disrupted on their journeys. Good job XR.

Their aims are deliberately unachievable. Otherwise they'd be met and they'd have to stop protesting.

The arrogance that come from XR and supporters is outstanding. To assume because people are not jumping on trains, glueing themselves to them and targeting ordinary workers trying to get to work, means people aren't thinking about climate change. Like a PP said I have learnt far more from my elderly relatives who re use everything and waste very little.

My teen is very up on climate issues. Just in a straight stop consuming so much way. It’s great.

The reality of “doing something” is a lot more boring than painting your hands red and dancing in Trafalgar Square.
My local reuse and recycle group are categorically unglamorous, but we talk to the local council about improving recycling rates and things are moving. Slowly.

They come off as incredibly childish. Jumping up and down whining about climate change but no actual action to resolve anything. Wanting the big bad men to make it stop! Well guess what, it's a huge complex problem which is going to require a huge complex solution which is not going to be achieved by any single person or government or indeed in a single time frame. Things will gradually change, in an un co-ordinated and random way. I guess people can't get their heads around that, the total lack of control they have. Everyone needs to grow the fuck up.

Having a wash and using deodorant would be a start.

Everyone needs to grow the fuck up

Quite. When you’re a kid / teenager things are very black and white. Goodies and baddies. Rights and wrongs. People who do bad things get punished, people who do good things get rewarded. Problems are difficult but fixable, often by authority figures.

With maturity comes an understanding of the complexity - and unsolvability - of some problems. You start to see that any solution has unseen long-term ramifications. You appreciate the need to take on board a variety of different perspectives, including perspectives you don’t necessarily agree with.

XR demonstrate none of the qualities that come with maturity.

Where does the push come from if no one cares to see change. Not businesses who are built for growth and building market share. Not politicians who want to be elected.

Growing the fuck up. Sure that could start with the childish taunts of crusty, hippy, posh ad infinitum.

This isn’t about causing civilisation to collapse, but about preserving it

Yes, we must destroy the village to save the village 🙃

Projections from the IPCC do not have a doomsday scenario and can be managed; and while I prefer switching to nuclear to further save fossil fuels for the essentials (agriculture and mining, for starters), no one from XR are even advocating for nuclear, which is the only carbon-neutral energy source that can power a modern society.

Or do you have a better idea that does not involve something like changing our economic system, downgrading our standard of living, etc etc

Where is your evidence that no one cares to see change?

Where does the push come from if no one cares to see change. Not businesses who are built for growth and building market share. Not politicians who want to be elected.

Start your own business then or promote change in the business you’re working in. Become a politician and be elected by XR people.

People do care now people it is being talked about. Not many grant you. But better than nothing.

XR just need to stop.

This is badly timed. We have Brexit and austerity to sort out. The infant mortality rate in this country is rising.

You can not expect people going to food banks and worrying about paying the rent, or how to get somewhere dry to live because their damp house is making their children I'll, to worry too much about a remote idea such as climate change.

It's not fair.

You want a greener society? Fight austerity.

You know what makes new businesses survive consumer demand. So yep I’m for anything that changes this. And not talking about any issues or doing nice documentaries that people don’t watch certainly doesn’t change it.

People are too lazy and selfish to make any changes because they saw a nice informative ad or website. Well they probably won’t see it.

It’s still a hard sell when people are blunter.

Nothing. As nothiing justifies their vandalism.
They could have done things differently, but I could never support their behaviour and hypocrisy.

My teen is very up on climate issues. Just in a straight stop consuming so much way. It’s great.

Marshabradyo Where does he/she stand on flying?

i do my bit for the planet, don't drive /fly etc my choice among other things, i've been eco for the last 40 odd years so they can do me a favour and fuck off the right bunch of twats.

Dapplegrey stop spending so much on holidays, don’t go. I know I found it surprising. He’s your average teen, scientifically directed in studies more than anything.

So I'd like to see them made a prescribed organisation so that we can prosecute the leadership and disrupt funding and communications. In short this groups tactics are such that their message is lost.

Marsha. You have an absolutely fixed idea in your head that nobody except you and your kid cares about environmental issues. It was the same on the other thread. According to you, business doesn’t care, government doesn’t care, no other ordinary working people care. Just you, your kid and the XR lot. You cannot see anything different because you are absolutely determined that this is the truth.

But it isn’t. Stuff IS happening and has been for years. People have talked about it on this thread. Sustainable policies, green energy, environmentally sound businesses, people working at a grass roots level like the PP who is gradually pushing her local council towards better recycling policies. Nothing is perfect but real change happens incrementally. And you will never advance your cause (beyond repeating the same thing over and over again using your unsustainable smartphone on mumsnet) if you don’t acknowledge that.

Lol I really don’t think me and ‘my kid’ are the only ones. I was answering a question.

I brought it up earlier because someone brought up teens.