To ask: what could Extinction Rebellion do to convince you?

[WallyWallyWally]

So another series of XR stunts unfolded today: a tree surgeon climbs Big Ben and unfurls a banner. Some other activists have chained themselves to the door of the Kenyan embassy. A big wooden tipi has been constructed to block Oxford Circus. In the crowds, people have been painting their hands red and are leaving handprints on pavements to symbolise... something.

They’ve camped out in public places. Climbed on top of trains and planes Performed various theatrical performances. They’ve marched and glued themselves to buildings. Held up traffic, waved banners, got kids to stay off school.

What XR want Is: for governments to declare a climate emergency, for actions to be taken to address this and for citizens assemblies to be set up to decide what these actions should be.

I’m not arguing about the science of climate heating (I’m convinced). I’m not asking them not to be hypocrites (it’s impossible to live a truly green lifestyle within our society as it is).

So: what could XR do to convince you of the right-ness of their cause? What action should they take? What campaigns / stunts / awareness raising can they do that would convince you that the house is on fire? To the extent that you would lobby your MP / campaign / join them?

I am already aware of the potential effects of climate change, without needing a bunch of idiots to point it out to me. For people who weren’t aware, I don’t think that XR will have brought it to their attention in a productive way.

To me the main issue is that this is a global problem - we in the UK can faff about all we want using reusable shopping bags and eating less meat (and I do, because to me it is better than doing nothing) but I don’t have an argument against people wondering what the point of it is when countries like China and India are opening hundreds of coal fired power stations. And if anyone can tell me what I should be doing I’ll be happy to listen to them - but lobbying my MP isn’t going to change the mindset of the Chinese government.

I don't know, what could rich white middle class people with the means to take weeks and weeks off to block the rest of London do to convince London they should be allowed to make us fret all night, get up much earlier, spend a fortune on taxis and live with much worse pollution because of the jams they created?

1. Accept that for many of us, the difference between getting to work and not (usually by public transport) is the difference between paying our bills and not.

1. Stop blocking bridges, which are routes for buses which will no longer go, leaving thousands of school children stranded. Parents go by car (the irony), those who can afford it send a cab or uber. The others struggle.

1. Stop creating traffic jams which leave London in such a fog of fumes that local primary schools have to stop the kids from playing outside. We sleep in this fog when the worthy (and wealthy) XRs are back in the green suburbs.

Once that is done, we can start to talk. The rest of us aren't thick and disinterested, we are aware. We just did not have the luxury to do a fun camp 3 times in 2019. We are also aware we shouldn't ram our point home at this sort of cost. XR disrupted the poor much more than the rich and I think this is because they have absolutely no idea what life is like for those who have to take a bus at stupid o'clock to get to a job they badly lead, because almost none of the XRs ever had to worry about stuff like that.

*job they badly need

Nothing. All they’ve done is prove themselves to be idiots with their pathetic antics.

Nothing.
When I see them protesting I do not automatically think of climate change, either do I think of the 'destruction' of the planet.
The only thing I think of is how the gap between the rich and the poor is widening and with this week's antics, stopping working class people from a deprived area of London from earning money and talking about police arrests as if it is a 'laugh' (yeah, it's a massive laugh when you have no money, no parents with savings to bail you out and you come from the wrong part of town/class so you are automatically classed as a wrong' un).
They are just proving that they are privileged white folk, out of touch with how the majority live with no concerns about the here and now.

So, to sum up ( in case any XR PR folks are reading):

The majority of people might be sympathetic to the cause of tackling climate heating but are totally turned off by XR’s overly-dramatic / weird interpretive dance / middle-class / white / posh / poorly-targeted demonstrations.

We want to see XR proposing potential solutions that we can debate / discuss / reject / adopt - at the moment their message is obscure and ill defined.

They totally fail to acknowledge that although it’s a big concern, tackling climate change isn’t as important to individuals as putting food on the table. Climate change, for most of us in the UK, feels like a remote, far-off, hypothetical concern: paying the rent, feeding the kids, getting to work on time are higher priorities.

And to answer my own OP: for the majority, No there’s nothing that XR could do to convince me at this point because they are such an annoying bunch of middle class wankers, I’d rather take my chances than support them.

Cheers all.

*But isn’t that what ER are saying we should do?

No*

Shows they are really getting their message across.

Thought going back to living on the woods was what they wanted .

Apart from those that are charged with spreading the word and they can fly around all they want.

Climate change, for most of us in the UK, feels like a remote, far-off, hypothetical concern: paying the rent, feeding the kids, getting to work on time are higher priorities.

I would say that for XR participants,
paying the rent, feeding the kids and getting to work on time feel like remote, far-off, hypothetical concerns.

I agree with @MitziK
Being able to make ethical choices is absolutely a luxury.
For my own ethical reasons I have not eaten meat for 30 years.
Due to disability and poverty have been unable to drive or fly for more than ten years.
But I don't get what I am supposed to do about climate change/carbon emissions.
Recycling is being buried in landfill because we don't have the infrastructure to recycle it all.
As someone said, we are a tiny country but even if we could make an impact it would be down to the government to make massive structural changes.
I don't know what XR want to convince me of. To vote green? Happy to do that...

I don't know what XR want to convince me of. To vote green? Happy to do that...

I think that’s a good start. Only through governments will the situation improve.

There is a complete lack of engagement with the public, we are just the extras in the usual publicity shot: celebrity/ yoga in front of a landmark/ glued to a train, surrounded by police, and outside the police line hundreds of people, the exchangeable extras for this shot.

You are quite correct @ravenshope You can make all the “green” consumer choices that there are - recycle everything, grow yr own veggies, never eat meat or dairy, never fly or drive, bamboo toothbrushes, the whole shebang - and you, as an individual living in the UK today, will still have an unsustainable carbon footprint. Because you don’t get an individual choice about, for example, how and where roads or railways or airports are constructed. Or how hospitals, schools, factories, water treatment plants etc etc are constructed and powered. Or where new housing schemes are developed and whether they are integrated with public transport Or how and where public transport provision is developed and powered. Or how energy is provided and distributed. Or how supermarkets and other big businesses deal with waste and energy consumption. Or how large areas of public land are managed.

The only way you can influence these things is politically. XR want you (us) to force the lawmakers to put the climate heating impact of all these decisions at the top of the list of priorities - above cost. This will inevitably be passed on to all of us in the form of either taxes or increased costs or higher bills. XR know this - but they don’t care or they see it as the end justifying the means. I personally think they are grossly misjudging the ability and the desire of the British public to suck up these costs in order to tackle the far off threat of climate heating.

It is far off to many but it will effect our children. This could be a motivating factor.

If people feel it is beyond their bandwidth atm due to trying just to live then at least others can have a go. I still think personal (consumer) changes are better than nothing at all.

I saw a debate betweem an XR representative and Nigel Farage.

Nigel proposed various measures such as a world wide reforestation effort. This was declared pointless by the XR rep.

Also suggested measures such a beach clean ups. But this was declared to be a worthless endeavour for XR people to partake in.

So NF asked: If not to suggest solutions what are the aims of XR?

Answer: The purpose of XR is to disrupt. Followed by 'I don't feel comfortable saying it, but that's it in a nutshell.'

So judging by this the train fail the other day was a success. Solutions are not part of their remit.

@Catherine

Sounds to me that Farage knew exactly how that would play out, and the XR rep walked right into it. They don’t have much success with their public faces / representatives tbh

They don't need to do anything to convince us of the rightness of their cause. We all know about climate change. The government has introduced windfarms, electric cars are on the way, and plastic is being replaced and restricted. What ER should be doing is come up with bright ideas as to what more to do. Not making fools of themselves and winding London up.

Nothing. They're the same twats who believe men can be women.

They follow a strange path through life and should ignored at all costs, imo.

Get a job

Spend their time planting trees instead of causing trouble

When they sort out places like this steel town in Italy;
www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-06/ilva-steelworks-taranto/10490868

Apart from the increase in tumours, cancer and birth deformities, the air is so toxic that children walk around with minerals in their ears, they can't attend school for up to 5 days a month if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction...

We are still in the EU - why don't XR pop over to Italy? They won't miss out on cappuccinos between demonstrations.

How can these people pop over to Italy, or China for that matter, when you can see from this thread the people who belong to it work and have families like anyone else. And take days off. Plus the issue of how to get there.

when you can see from this thread the people who belong to it work and have families like anyone else.

Actually - I do know 2 people (plus child) who attended the demonstrations. Neither adult has worked for ten years and they home school - grandparents are wealthy. I'm not suggesting everyone 'pop over' to Italy - LED by Donkeys managed to get to Brussels for Brexit.

It’s still very hard for people who are just normal workers - teacher, professor, nanny was mentioned earlier.

It would cost a lot and not everyone has that extra money.

MarshaBradyo
Oh, OK - just ignore what's happening in Italy and other parts of Europe then. I thought one of the benefits of remaining in the EU was to protect the environment? Only when it suits...

I’m not ignoring anything

ER is in lots of countries. UK people don’t have to travel there. But yeah people based there sure why not.