BUTTER is the business

[Rocktheboot]

Thanks to Highfields I have rediscovered the joy of butter this weekend. Toast is DELICIOUS with butter instead of flora on it. Am thinking cupcakes will be twice as nice.

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So, if you're walking down the street and you see a woman, how do you know she is a woman? Do you have a look up her skirt to see if she has the right bits (rhetorical question - of course you don't)? But you can still identify a woman. So for me, this indicates a cultural identity which is more than purely the presence or absence of the right body parts.

I don't think that's proving the point you think it is. We are hard-wired to recognise the female shape, the female gait, it doesn't matter whether the person is fat or thin or old or young, tall or short, long hair, short hair, wearing a hat or a cap or a scarf up around their neck, trousers, coat, we can tell it's a woman walking towards us or away. Nothing to do with gender presentation. Nothing to do with culture. We could land in Lapland and be surrounded by strange people muffled in sealskin coats and we'd still be able to tell. Anyone who claims otherwise has an agenda.

Women have our own reality, we are not a subset of men.

Women have our own reality, we are not a subset of men.

Quite. And men who think they are women have no way of knowing that how they feel is more like how a woman would feel than a man. It's pure ideology.

I use "man" here as its globally accepted definition of adult human male, of course.

I don't think posters like Graham really understand how harmful this ideology is. And it's concerning because they appear to think they are doing their best and being "fairer". Sex-based rights can only exist with an understanding of sex, and why one sex is traditionally disadvantaged in most human societies. I'm not thick, I've done intellectual navel gazing too. But the biological reality of being female isn't something we can ignore or handwave away with empty pomo reasoning that nothing means anything.

@FeckOffGraham

So, if you're walking down the street and you see a woman, how do you know she is a woman? Do you have a look up her skirt to see if she has the right bits (rhetorical question - of course you don't)? But you can still identify a woman. So for me, this indicates a cultural identity which is more than purely the presence or absence of the right body parts.

Just wondering now...do you mean that you identify who's a female by how the person presents themselves?

Yes - "scones without butter -" noooooo!
Did you know that Country Life butter can just about spread straight from the fridge?

Someone on another thread said you can make a good spread by mixing butter with olive oil and sticking it in the fridge.

Or just buy spreadable anchor or lurpak, which are butter blended with rapeseed which is another healthy oil.

I like the idea of making my own.

Am I the only one who didn't know people used margarine on toast and that? 🤢
Only use real butter in my house and that includes baking (bar apple tarts, use baking butter then.
Can't beat a block of Kerrygold

It's like 2 totally different threads on mumsnet jus got weirdly mashed together.

Mmm mashed potatoes with butter.

Sadly they do fifi, including commercial establishments who really should know better, such as the pub with the menu that wittered on about it's lovely home made soup and rolls from the nearby artisan bakery that served these items with a pot of fecking margarine. I sent it back and politely explained how unacceptable this was.

Even worse are the people who work in such establishments who call any sort of spread 'butter' because you then have to establish whether it is real actual butter when they say 'do you want butter on it' because I've learnt to my cost that it rarely is, including on a bacon sandwich in Booths of all places.

(Booths, for the uninitiated is a small supermarket chain in northern England that makes Waitrose look like Tesco).

It might even be three cornflake.

Yes, there's BUTTER dishes, spreadable butter, and this one.

I can't remember which thread it was where I related the tragedy that was the use of spread on crumpets in the Asda cafe .

Butter is life

I've just had Warburtons crumpets with Anchor butter, let the butter soak in and then put a bit more on top. Food of the gods!
Always been butter in this house (has to be salted tho) And I've got a Pyrex butter dish that was my Grans 👌

We use Bertollli for spreading and butter for occasional baking/cooking.

Just wondering now...do you mean that you identify who's a female by how the person presents themselves?

Not necessarily, but, IME, I think transwomen normally do tend to present themselves as feminine. Have you ever heard a man described as 'a bit effeminate'? Femininity and masculinity, as social constructs absolutely exist imo. Gaits, size, shape etc. vary a lot from woman to woman, so that alone isn't a fail safe way of determining someone's gender or sex.

Re showering in front of someone who has a penis, yes, of course that is an obvious area where two sets of rights can be at odds with one another. This is what I meant when I said, this is all quite new territory and we are finding our way through it as a society. Creative thinking and sensible debate on the issues is needed, rather than either side screaming about "MY RIGHTS".

And certainly, enlisting dubious brands of margarine to make your case is counterproductive. Ditto being deliberately derogatory towards transpeople just to prove how anti woke you are.

Just my opinion again. I feel I have to keep emphasising this.

I’ve only had butter for a few years now - Morrison’s Brittney salted - lovely stuff

Flora is oily shite imho

Spreadable butter substitutes are horrible. Once (years ago) a friend said to me we had posh /expensive butter. It was the old school non spreadable type. I pointed out that actually it's cheaper than the spread.

I think transwomen normally do tend to present themselves as feminine. Have you ever heard a man described as 'a bit effeminate'? Femininity and masculinity, as social constructs absolutely exist imo

Of course they do. Transwomen are (often, though not always) males who present in a stereotypically 'feminine' way. But that doesn't in any way make them actually women. Many women 'present' in ways which are stereotypically masculine - some may identify as transmen, or 'transmasc' or nonbinary or simply as gender nonconforming women (who may not even have given 'presentation' any thought at all. This is all absolutely fine - up to the point where someone claims to have done the impossible and changed sex and impinges on the sex-based rights of others.

We are hard-wired to recognise the female shape, the female gait, it doesn't matter whether the person is fat or thin or old or young, tall or short, long hair, short hair, wearing a hat or a cap or a scarf up around their neck, trousers, coat, we can tell it's a woman walking towards us or away.

This just makes me cringe.

I'm 37. Over the years I was skinny but hourglass, a bit chubby but hourglass, mega overweight, all manner of hair styles and dress sense (mostly til recently not dresses or skirts).

I've been called sir, mister, mate, dude, man, you name it.

My eldest has the same problem. It pisses her off too.

And none of this shit has anything to do with butter ffs. But carry on, you all sound like you've nothing better to do.

@LaurieMarlow my local hardware store has small butter dishes. I saw them the other day and am going to go back and buy one or two. They'd fit a quarter pack of butter I think and for us will be perfect to keep some butter separate for the DC's bagels as they keep ending up with cinnamon in the big block.

This is what I meant when I said, this is all quite new territory and we are finding our way through it as a society.

I would like to see a more robust evidence based rationale than you've so far managed as the reasoning behind even considering making women shower in front of men against their will. It's a violation of those women's rights.

You have offered precisely nothing. It's all your personal ideological beliefs. As I said, not all views are equally valid. You have not managed to support your belief in gender identity ideology with anything solid apart from waffly vague notions about how people present themselves.

But carry on, you all sound like you've nothing better to do.

You say, posting on an AIBU thread.

This is what I meant when I said, this is all quite new territory and we are finding our way through it as a society. Creative thinking and sensible debate on the issues is needed, rather than either side screaming about "MY RIGHTS".

Careful Graham, haven't you got the memo that trans lives aren't up for debate? That kind of talk will get you sent to the terf gulag if you're not careful.

The entire reason this has become so toxic is that there is no discussion allowed in most places. That mumsnet is now regarded as being the epicentre of "hatred" towards trans people is because very few forums allow any discussion. I suspect I'm a bit like you in that I think people do go too far on here sometimes, and some aspects of the discussion can get overdone.

When I first started thinking about it I was generally of the "lets be nice to everyone" line of thinking. But when I engaged a bit more and saw the downright abusiveness of TRAs to anyone who wouldn't capitulate to all of their demands (sports, changing rooms etc etc), and even labeling anyone asking to talk about such things as transphobic, it shed a totally different light on it for me. One that made it look much more sinister, particularly with the potential effects on women.

It would be absolutely wonderful if there could be open discussion, but that is exactly what TRAs don't want.

Creative thinking and sensible debate on the issues is needed, rather than either side screaming about "MY RIGHTS".

I think my right not to shower in front of male people with or without penises is quite important actually.