To be gutted by the implication of this book?

[scattercushion]

I am reading The Book You Wish Your Parents had Read by Phillipa Perry, (Grayson's wife) and it keeps making me cry because essentially she's saying that any emotional problems your child has is down to you.

I have an extremely anxious teenager who is very unhappy at the moment. She struggles to make friends and then struggles to keep them. She worries that she smells. She worries about the cleanliness of our house and whether it will make her ill (this really touched a nerve as I try to keep the house/kitchen fairly tidy and I grew up in an extremely messy/dirty house and felt ashamed of it). When one worry subsides another flares up. It's constant. The quality of her life is affected. She's going to be referred to Camhs.

I try and try and try with her. I honestly do and have done everything I can think of to help - I go to workshops, have bought books to help me and to read with her, have tried mindfulness etc etc. Everything. I try to be encouraging, supportive, understanding, gentle.

Context: She had a difficult birth and cried non-stop for six months. I don't know if these two are related.
She has always been highly sensitive - not just emotionally but to flavours, smells, textures etc.
She has always struggled with friendships.
I've wondered about autism but she doesn't tick many of those boxes on the Cambridge University online test.

So my question is: Is it really my fault?
I get that Perry is talking about the patterns of behaviour that we pass on from our parents, but my parents were emotionally neglectful (mum was an alcoholic and very depressed) and I am actively trying to avoid repeating these patterns. But I've still ended up with a very unhappy daughter. Please tell me that the book does not speak the truth?

I think different personalities can react badly or well to certain types of parenting. E.g. myself and my brother had fairly similar (abusive) upbringings. He (though not without his issues) battled through and is now highly successful. I am a chronic depressive and struggling to survive most of the time. He was more resilient to the type of parenting whereas it was the worst possible type of parenting for me. I personally do blame my mother for my issues. My brother was stronger and able to overcome the abuse. I wasn't. It destroyed me.
Not sure if that helps at all. But she might need a different style of parenting to that which you give your other daughter.

Nat6999 - has the diagnosis been helpful? Has it eased the problems you've encountered or just made sense of them?

Perry is in the business of selling books. She does that by generating controversy and column inches. Pop psychology books rely on broad brush strokes and things are rarely that black and white.

I would also look into autism. I have an autistic child and many of the traits you've described apply to him.

Lifeonvenus - sorry to hear you're struggling. I know the feeling well. Regarding different parenting styles, the relationship I have with my other daughter is so much simpler, less fraught with tension and I feel sad about that. It's a vicious circle.

or what about the stigma around mental health is waning, thus it's more acceptable to admit to anxiety etc? Children may not be getting unhappier, they may just be allowed to say how they feel if it's anything other than tip-top.

While it’s true to some extent that mental illness is better diagnosed - rates of self harm, addiction, EDs etc in teens are rising nonetheless.

I'm glad I haven't read this book - you could've described my daughter except that she has meltdowns at home. I've had it suggested, and other friends have 'helpfully' passed on things about transferring anxieties to your child. I feel it's personality too, she was like this from the baby stage onwards, incredibly routine dependent and would cry for hours if schedule changed by half an hour.

A lot of parenting advice is utter garbage aimed at NT kids, and goodness knows other mums and teachers etc can be sadly quick to judge.

btw - the reason there is so much focus on parents not transferring anxieties, parenting mistakes, parents changing etc is because that's all these professionals can do. They can't say 'this is a genetic/from birth condition, we don't know why she has it and we have a limited amount of tools, one thing we can do is focus on your parenting because that's one of our limited tools available'...

anxiety disorders are all over both sides of my family tree for example, a huge collection of labels. I've found occupational therapy very helpful for practical tools to help manage overwhelm.

I have studied human genetics, animal behaviour and child development.

My personal belief is that each child comes pre wired with a set of traits (like tendencies to be better at something or more sensitive to something). There is nothing we, as parents can do to change those traits, but we can influence them to a certain extent. So for example, a child who is gifted in math is much less likely to develop that to its maximum if they grow up in a migrant camp with little schooling, or are told that they arent capable and stupid. A child who is sensitive to textures and sensations on their skin is going to be able to handle it much better if they are taught how to recognise that they are uncomfortable, identify what the offending sensation is and manage their environment to reduce the impact on them.

We as parents cant change who are children are, but if we are aware and choose to educate ourselves / advocate for them about what we can do to develop and maximise our children’s potential, then we will be doing our job.

Which addictions are on the rise with teens? I was under the impression that smoking, drinking and taking drugs in the current batch of teens is far less common that in their parents youth.

Just tried to look at the Philippa Perry webchat thing on Mumsnet and it wouldn't open. I like to think it's because she's cringing at this thread.

I do think there's something really oppressive about this idea that our parents create us so completely. I had some struggles as a child (significant psych involvement), in myself, I really struggled into being! It was tough, but it wasn't something my parents did, or didn't do. It was my struggle.

(And I'm fine now, actually, perhaps stronger for it. My dad is still locked into 20+ year old ideas about my personality, psyche, mental health (as are many parents, of course) and it utterly bewilders those who have only known me as an adult. )

It's easier to see more clearly if we think about it from the perspective of ourselves as children. We are all individuals. We were all creating ourselves in childhood. Our parents were present and helped, but they didn't, couldn't, do it for us.

There is a book called 'Aspergirls' about how aspergers and autism present differently in girls and women. It was eye opening for me, and maybe you and your daughter could read it to see if it resonates with you.

I think it ignores the genetic part of the equation but even the nurture part isn't completely in parental control.

I've sent my children to the same schools, but they've had vastly different experiences sometimes with the same staff members have reacted differently to them.

I do think it's affected them quietest one is now quietly confident expect teachers and other to listen to them the most outgoing had lots of social bullying issues keep their head down and is really quiet.

There does seem to be some sensory stuff going on with your DD so I'd suggest it was worth investigating that with SENCO or looking at other checklists – Dyspraxia

Your daughter sounds incredibly like mine. Difficult birth, cried non-stop, highly sensitive to noises, smells, labels in clothing etc. She finds making friends difficult, she is germ-phobic and washes her hands constantly, is obsessive about the cleanliness of the house, and checking things like best before dates, she has massive difficulties with anxiety and panic attacks...loads of things really.

She was diagnosed with Asperger's at the age of six (after a referral for possible ocd - she doesn't have that, it's just part of how her autism presents). It is extremely unusual for a girl to be diagnosed at such a young age, and I think we got really lucky in finding someone who had some knowledge about girls with autism. It really does present differently in girls.

She is now a teenager and actually, having the knowledge that she does about her autism has been an incredibly powerful tool for her. She owns it. We've always been really positive about autism at home, and she has come to understand why she behaves/feels like she does, and is pretty good at dealing with it. She is doing pretty well at school, and although she still has trouble making friends, she seems to have found a small group who know that she has Asperger's, and who let her be who she is.

I'd definitely consider looking into autism as a possibility.

OP, Perry is a psychotherapist with a psychoanalytic bent. Their approach rests heavily on the idea that our earliest relationships can unconsciously play out again and again within ourselves and with others. I'm someone with an academic background in the field, I believe it is a real and relevant approach to some mental health issues... but the key word is "some". Put the book down. Perry hasn't met you or your DD.

Depends on the addiction. No-one I knew was addicted to gaming or or porn when I was a teen.

New government figures reveal the number of teenagers in public substance misuse services fell by 5 per cent last year, from 16,436 to 15,583, while the proportion of this under-18s who had used drugs increased from 10 per cent in 2014 to 15 per cent two years later.

^Nearly a fifth of pupils say they had taken a drug in the last year, while separate data shows school exclusions for alcohol and drug use have increased substantially in recent years, up by 95 per cent since 2011.

Separate figures provided to The Independent meanwhile show that the number of under-21s being admitted to one of the UK’s leading rehab firms for substance-based addictions has surged by 186 per cent in the last three years, from 93 patients in 2015 to 266 this year.

The drugs teenagers are using are also changing, with the number of children being treated for addiction to tranquilisers having doubled in a year to more than 300. The drug Xanax accounted for the sharpest rise - from eight children receiving treatment in 2016-17 to 53 in 2017-18.

There has also been a sharp rise in the number of young people entering treatment for problems with ecstasy, with the figures having increased by 16 per cent from the previous year and almost doubled since 2014.

There was also an 18 per cent increase in young people in treatment for problems with crack cocaine over the same period, although the numbers were much lower (83 in 2016 to 2017 and 98 in 2017 to 2018).

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/young-people-rehab-rehabilitation-drug-alcohol-addiction-treatment-gangs-teenagers-public-health-a8670406.html

I have two DDs with ASD who sound very similar to your DD. It was like reading a mixed up description of the two of them.

The more I learn about ASD, the more I see their traits in our wider family members so I know it wasn't anything I did wrong.

Autism is only diagnosed in people for whom their difficulties are having a significant negative impact on their life. It sounds like that is the case for your DD so she absolutely could be assessed.

There are very few disadvantages to having a diagnosis and there are many, many ways in which it can help.

I strongly disagree with anyone who says a traumatic birth could cause these difficulties. Babies don't start living or become consious in the process of their birth. They have a wealth of experiences in the womb and are totally unaware of the momentous nature of their transition into the wider world.

The world can be a frightening, overwheming and unpredicatable place for people with autism and the impact of feeling that everyone around them is communicating and managing better than them can have a huge impact on their self-esteem.

I hope CAMHS are prepared to carry out a full neurodevelopmental assessment on your DD and you get some helpful answers.

Toilet paper in the making.

Perhaps your daughter is just temperamentally like your mother?

Doesn't mean she'll turn to drink, just that she finds life more difficult than most?!

or what about the stigma around mental health is waning, thus it's more acceptable to admit to anxiety etc?

That’s possibly true of adults but children show rather than tell how they feel. I’m sure there’s an element of diagnosis but I still think MH issues are massively on the rise. I think the reasons are complex though- social inequality, time poor families, social pressures, social media, community breakdown, lack of personal freedom, probably some environmental factors.

I haven't read the book, but I don't believe your daughter's struggles are your fault. But it does sound like your willingness to take the blame for it might sit in your own childhood. I know it's almost impossible to do but can you step away from looking for blame at all and focus on managing her difficulties and looking at support and help whether that's in the form of a diagnosis or not?

This booklet on sensory behaviour might be interesting for you OP.

www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/social-care/disabilities/docs/young-people/Making%20Sense%20of%20Sensory%20Behaviour.pdf?v=201507131117

I'll add my vote for you to ask for an assessment by a team that specialise in diagnosing autism and other conditions in girls and women. Gold standard is the Lorna Wing centre, but there are others. www.autism.org.uk/services/diagnosis/diagnostic.aspx

I'd not bother with a 'pre diagnostic consultation' by any provider because you have mentioned enough instances to indicate it's possible your dd could be autistic.

All about the diagnostic procedure www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/children.aspx

By all means pursue an NHS assessment, unfortunately they are currently running at 18 months to 2 years start-to-finish in a lot of areas and don't always have expertise in diagnosing women and girls.

My youngest DD walked into CAMHS and by the end of the assessment the assessor (an Educational Psych) suggested we might want to go down the Autism diagnosis route. In my area that could be done via CAMHS or a Paediatrician, so I would ask about it clearly for your area.

I have another DD who has actually been told by several "therapists" including CAMHS that she isn't Autistic - but actually she is coming around to thinking maybe she is - she certainly has "traits" from my observation.

Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Autism, OCD are all related.

why do parents seem so relieved to find out it's genetics rather than their parenting that are the cause of their child's issues?
Because if it is Genetics then I can read up, go on courses etc. and learn new ways to try and help my child.
If it is just my bad parenting - then I would need possibly years of therapy before I could even start to do something to help my child.

And of course it is an interaction of parenting and genetics - as if each child came with an instruction manual they would end up having far fewer problems. We'd just turn to the page which said "Johnny struggles with Loud parties and will need to cling to a care giver for longer than the other children." OR "Rosie just needs some gentle encouragement and then being ignored and she will quickly get over her initial nerves and join in at noisy parties." OR "Jane cannot cope with the noise, colours, smells of large parties - refuse all invitations swiftly."