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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Friend disciplined my child

124 replies

WheredidIgowrongkid · 09/10/2019 14:06

Hello! I've come across a rather difficult situation. Yesterday a friend confronted me about my son's behaviour claiming that he was essentially beating up her son. They're both 7 and in the same class. There has been a lot of disruption in the classroom and my son has struggled to cope with it and his mental health has taken a fair hit. During the discussion with the other boys mum she said that she and her partner had decided on a '3 strike and he's out' rule re my sons behaviour and he's had 2 strikes already. She never mentioned anything about his behaviour to me despite walking to school together and going to baby groups together. Aibu to be furious that she disciplined my child instead of talking to me about it and letting it all escalate to this level? She's prepared to put an end to their friendship if anything else happens.
To be clear my son has only retaliated when hers has pushed him beyond his limit and she says that she's 'made exceptions' because she knows he's having a hard time with school so I dread to think what would have been said if he was settled at school.

OP posts:
FrancisCrawford · 09/10/2019 16:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PhilCornwall1 · 09/10/2019 16:37

Say the magic words 'safe-guarding issue' and ask for it to be put on record.

Then these "magic words" get over used and lose their real meaning, as is the case these days.

AlexaAmbidextra · 09/10/2019 16:41

Safeguarding issue has become the new Health & Safety. Used everywhere inappropriately. ☹️

LolaSmiles · 09/10/2019 16:42

That's very true Phil and yet depressingly it seems to be increasingly popular advise on MN at the moment, along with demand a meeting with the head, write to the governors, call Ofsted.

WombatChocolate · 09/10/2019 16:55

Isn't what she said to him effectively 'if you carry on with this behaviour, there will be consequences'

Which of course is exactly right. If a child continues to be violent, there will be consequences and there should be consequences. It is simply a fact, not an act of discipline.

I feel worried about OP's son. He is aggressive and loses his temper. And when he is faced with his own behaviour and possible consequences, he cannot cope with it and bei mess inconsolable. These 2 things together strike me as very worrying - the behaviour itself, but also his response to being confronted with the reality of it.

Op, I think you need to be far more worried about this than the other parent. Why aren't you posting for advice about how to handle this genuine issue, rather than simply an incident which has highlighted it. Perhaps also have a think about why you feel so defensive about it too and if this approach and attitude from you is really helping to deal with the actual problem of his behaviour. Honestly, everyone who is focusing on the other adult and seeing an issue there in what she said is involved in deflection - failure and refusal to see what the real problem is, amd instead focusing in on a non-issue.

Unfortunately, some parents with difficult children do this. They aren't interested in the real problems their children have and if ever they are faced with them or told about them, they become obsessed with issues about the people who are telling them the information, or the school or the teacher or the process by which the information has been given.....it's pure deflection, to avoid having to actually Focus on the genuine issues by creating a complaint instead. Op, do you think there is an element if this going on here?

MrsFogi · 09/10/2019 17:12

She didn't discipline him, she has warned you that her son won't be playing with yours any more if he does it a 3rd time (which is extremely generous of her - I think I'd not have got past 1)! You need to teach your son to control his actions even if going through a tough time.

grumpypregnanttired · 09/10/2019 17:21

If I saw a child being violent to my child, I would absolutely tell them to stop! I don’t think she has been unreasonable for saying this.

Pheasantplucker2 · 09/10/2019 17:35

I think what's obvious to me now parenting first 2 compliant people pleasing girls (not saying they all are!!!) and then a little boy, who struggled to express his emotions and often lashes out in frustration (so far not in school, but at me) is that understanding how to behave and how to cope with understanding unspoken rules of behaviour does not come easily to some children.

In my case it's my son, but I've seen it in girls too - their strategies tend to be around needing to control others and performance crying, intimidating and bullying to get the desired result. For all of you saying "parent your child more effectively", it isn't always that simple. Yes, sometimes it's due to lax parenting. But not always. Some children need much more parental input and to be told explicitly how to cope and manage complex emotions.

It's not always easy when someone with more social nous and a bit of a mean streak sees your child as a target and takes great delight in winding yours up to the point that he/she explodes, then does the innocent hurt face. We've all come across that situation. My girls learnt how to manage the situation better instinctively, my son needed telling explicitly to stay away from that child, and how to (a) recognise when he was in the early stage of temper rising and (b) how to get himself out of the situation. He still frequently gets it wrong at 7.

So I helicopter parent him in social situations, whereas I've never had to with the girls. I only let him go on playdates with children whose parents are aware that he can struggle in certain situations, although, to be fair to him, he manages to hold it together in other people's houses usually. I make sure playdates here have a directed activity, frequent pitstops for snacks and a bit of time out. But it is exhausting and so we limit them.

OP, in your situation I wouldn't let him play out unattended for a bit. Watch him, watch his interaction with other kids and talk explicitly about what happened and the consequences. Be really really clear at what point he should have asked for help/walked away/changed tactic. The 5 point scale is really good - 1 is fine, 2 is a bit fractious, 3 is tempers rising, 4 is full on anger and 5 is physically lashing out. Teach him to recognise first 3, then 2.

Give him distraction techniques. So, for example with the boy stopping him on the trampoline, tell him to turn his back and bounce. It may be that this will wind the other boy up and he might try and escalate it - I try and teach my son a really silly joke that he can repeat to diffuse tension. Or a physical challenge to get away from the situation "I bet I can get to the back door without touching the floor". Or even something as simple as "wow, look at that plane, I wonder where it's going". The key is to try and distract in order to get away and to an adult safely before his temper rises to the point that he can't control it.

To other parents who are frustrated with "naughty" kids hurting theirs - please remember that all behaviour is communication and try to understand where these children are coming from, and your own child's part in it. There's always a reason - I'm not victim blaming by any stretch, but we will all come across people who behave badly throughout life and how we teach our children to manage them will, in turn, increase or diminish their power.

My sister was bullied horrifically at school - I hated her bully and wished her dead for the misery she caused my sister. Eventually, my sister stood up to her and that one tiny act of defiance switched the balance of power a little. It didn't completely stop it, but the bully could see my sister gain strength and she eventually looked for other targets.

As an adult I found out that the bully was being abused by her stepdad.

There's never a black and white - my child good your child bad in most situations.

billy1966 · 09/10/2019 17:36

OP,

Good to read you both have had a calm chat.

As ye are neighbours, it would be great for the boys to get on if possible.

In this situation, I would agree with the other Mum that they are completely kept apart for a couple of weeks.

Each to be told that " you are not being kind to each other, you are winding each other up, and ye are not playing like nice friends together, therefore ye are not allowed play with each other".

Repeat on a loop, so that they get it.

Separately, and together, after a couple of weeks, ye could speak to the boys about playing together again, but with conditions and firm rules.

Your son needs help to manage his emotions. Take this time to do this.

The boys need supervision, and firm boundaries.

Help them with this together.

TheCanterburyWhales · 09/10/2019 18:26

Re: safeguarding. I'm joint lead in my school and, thankfully, out here in the real world, it's not touted as the answer to everything like it is on Mumsnet.
But, telling a child off for walloping another one would be seen as effective safeguarding The child who has been walloped obviously.
Central tenet of basic safeguarding training : is the child safe? yes- there is no safeguarding case to answer. no- get the child to a safe situation.
Child has been walloped. Now he's safe because the adult dealt with the situation appropriately by telling aggressor to stop it.

OP, looks like you and the other parent have calmed the waters. Now find some strategies to stop your son hitting. At 7 he is old enough to know it's an absolute.

NearlyGranny · 09/10/2019 19:27

TheCanterburyWhales, my point about safeguarding was actually about an adult, an employee at school, threatening a child in such a way that he was inconsolable.

However, PPs clearly don't see any issue with the hostile yet vague "There will be trouble!" uttered to the child.

It was said off school premises but of course the child is there every day and may encounter that person daily for all we know.

We don't know the tone or body language but we do know the child's frightened reaction.

TheCanterburyWhales · 09/10/2019 20:16

I know what your point was.
Mine (and others) was pointing out that this situation, (like most other kneejerk "wah wah safeguarding repeat ad nauseum" soundbites on social media, would be eye-rolled out of the building. )
People really need to stop bandying the word around when the clearly don't understand it in the context of adult-child (or indeed child-child or adult-adult relationships)

EKGEMS · 09/10/2019 20:36

Philcornwall1 He's only seven years old I'm sure at that age you were addressing parliament and knew five languages?! The other mother is an authority figure at the school and a neighbor.

Straycatstrut · 09/10/2019 21:02

They sound like siblings!

My boys are 3 and 7 and they fight constantly because they get so utterly bored of each other.

These boys need splitting up for a while and to make new friends. They won't like it because they're so 'used to' each other but someone has to bite the bullet here for their own good.

FudgeBrownie2019 · 09/10/2019 21:04

There's never a black and white - my child good your child bad in most situations.

Absolutely. Pheasent has hit the nail right on the head.

I have one compliant well-behaved-looking angel child who never, ever causes trouble. I have one who finds social interactions harder and as he's grown up has had to work bloody hard to keep his cool in situations where others have deliberately targeted him. The compliant angel-child is an absolute genius at ensuring he is never caught behaving like a dick, but I still know he does it. He knows how to wind his brother up, he knows which buttons to press. Even the ones who look and sound like angels can be asshats sometimes. No point pretending otherwise; everyone's children can be ridiculous, it's 'knowing' your child as honestly as you can and owning who they are that helps you to help them become the best version of themselves; I want my 'good boy' to actually be a good boy instead of pressing his brother's buttons, I want my hot head to manage his emotions successfully, and the only way to help both do that is to admit to them and to myself who they are.

NearlyGranny · 09/10/2019 21:28

I'm not a SM sound bite. This situation would concern me if I came across it professionally. I gave my considered opinion based on what we know from OP.

I would be asking what had been done in school to address the behaviour of the employee and to ensure that the child felt safe and secure going into that environment every day.

But I'll let it be now.

SpiderCharlotte · 09/10/2019 21:36

We don't know the tone or body language but we do know the child's frightened reaction.

No, we don't @NearlyGranny. We only know what the OP has told us.

For all we 'know' the other parent could have said it in a jokey 'there'll be trouble' kind of way. I doubt it, but my point is that we don't know anything other than what the OP has said and that is hardly an unbiased view.

Sagradafamiliar · 09/10/2019 21:46

If her child keeps twatting your child first, why are you not all for them being kept apart? If they can't play without fighting then they shouldn't be spending time together, no strikes needed.

LolaSmiles · 09/10/2019 22:21

TheCanterburyWhales
You're spot on.

On MN some people will simultaneously suggest:

  1. Call school crying safeguarding for any issue regardless of whether it is safeguarding or not because that makes people magically take you seriously
  2. Never question any form of poor parenting at all, never report any concerns about a child and mind your own business because parenting is hard and only nosy people would get involved and make horrible accusations.
  3. If anyone raises any questions about your child or their wellbeing or safeguarding or school have to pass anything on then that's obviously totally malicious and people should keep their noses out and concentrate on actual safeguarding (usually claimed by people not in safeguarding)
  4. Stuff what we know about children being more at risk from family and people known to them, the boogyman in the street and random kidnapping is by far more of a threat.

It's bizarre and there's no coincidence to me that the more crap advice given on here seems to tally with a rise in people not having a clue what safeguarding actually is

SpagBowl99 · 09/10/2019 22:34

Violence is not on, never, no matter what. She's protecting her son. Teach your son it's wrong.

Had a similar situation where my child was physically hit on numerous occasions.

I stupidly didn't say anything to parents, but was coaching my child to avoid said child. I wish I had done what this parent is doing. Talk to your child and get it to stop.

In my case after a rather grim repeat of behaviour (my child upset) parent of other child asked me if my child could get over it quicker because their child was distraught mine hadn't got over it sooner. WTF. ...

You will be helping your child and their future. Please do it OP

Gentleness · 10/10/2019 08:23

Your update is great OP. So glad you sorted it out.

Teaching kids to manage their emotions doesn't always seem like it's going well in our house though. If you have any tips, please share!

SpagBowl99 · 10/10/2019 09:26

Yes, update good OP, well done. Same in our house re. emotions, it is a journey

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 10/10/2019 09:32

Why is a 7 year old inconsolable about being told off? Angry, sulky, briefly upset perhaps but inconsolable? I'd want to put in some serious work on resilience.

He's hitting. Never mind who started it, it's never ok to hit. If he's going to behave unacceptably he's going to face consequences!

underground76 · 10/10/2019 09:39

I don't think it's her place to give lectures about behaviour when she doesn't know the full story of his struggles.

Your son's 'struggles' do not mean that other parents have to sit back and watch him hit their children without saying anything to him.

You said yourself that when her child is badly behaved, you tell him to play nicely with your child or go home. That is basically exactly what the other mother did to your son - she told him he wouldn't be allowed to play with her child if he carried on hitting him.

Frankly, it sounds like your kids don't actually get on very well at all and I'm not sure why you want them to carry on playing together anyway. It sounds like they bring out the worst in each other.

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