To think sectioning shouldn’t be done lightly

[User5022]

Eg used because an adult decided they didn’t want to rest of a treatment. I always assumed it had a really high threshold.

My mum tried to kill herself with a paracetamol overdose and there was no help whatsoever, she was told to self refer herself to camhs. I wish they had sectioned her as she would have gotten the help she needs as she never referred herself to camhs and I'm always waiting for that call to say she has killed herself.

OP-I appreciate that this must be incredibly painful to hear, but sectioining won't have been done lightly, nor "just because" someone refused treatment. It will have been done because in the few of various different qualified professionals the person met the statutory thresholds and it was the only way to keep them safe and get them the care they needed.

Please do not say or do anything to erode this person's trust in the doctors, nurses and others who are just trying to treat and help her. That really isn't kind or I'm her best interests.

TheMustressMhor Deciding to refuse the last four hours of life-saving treatment because she finds hospital very hard and noisy should not be a realistic reason for stopping it, though.

I'm wondering if the DD is on the autistic spectrum. The hospital environment could then be so overwhelming she can't think straight and just wants to get away.

Just a suggestion as this is how it was for me, I was eventually diagnosed with autism a couple of years ago and know it can go unnoticed in females so wanted to flag it up...

Were you with her when she refused further treatment OP ?

From my experience, there are usually a list of people waiting for a bed (who will be for a section or may want a bed voluntarily). I am speculating here, so please forgive me if I'm wrong about your situation. I would say refusing treatment that could potentially save your life after a suicide attempt is a very worrying sign and might indicate that the person may attempt again after leaving hospital. Refusing treatment that isn't life saving but could have life changing consequences is also a sign of serious neglect or self harm. They can't predict whether it would result in death or not and would be in serious trouble if either outcomes happened. Whether there is a risk of death or self harm, I think either would warrant a section.

I know MH hospitals aren't the most ideal places to be when feeling suicidal sometimes, as wards can be unsettled at times and patients can't just leave the ward when they want to in the beginning, but they do offer staff who will help the person stay safe until they feel better and an opportunity to find a medication that can really work for the person.

They never section lightly OP, while this must be distressing for you I don't think you will be helping your child by letting her think the medical staff are doing anything other than helping her at the moment after her overdose.

Your child has been sectioned because she has attempted to end her life, not simply because she declined treatment. It is an extremely stressful situation for you and you have my sympathy, but she needs to be where she is. This is not done lightly at all.

The fact it was only another 4 hours and she wasn't willing to stay must've ring alarm bells.

It's not done lightly, a doctor, social worker and police are involved in a section iirc.

She needs to finish her treatment.

It's an awful situation to be in OP and I really feel for you and your daughter. But sectioning is definitely not done lightly, your DD is at really high risk and they want to keep her safe.

I think you are being incredibly glib and naive, OP. It's a horrible situation to be in but I agree with others; the threshold is too high. You should be concerned and ensuring all suggestions are followed from now on.

Detention under section is never done lightly although I imagine it seems otherwise at times to people detained and their families.

I work in mental health. Believe me, the amhps I encounter really do see detention under section as the last resort and will look for any safe way it can be avoided. But they key thing there is safe. Someone who has completed overdose and required NAC and is trying to leave before that is finished is going to struggle to satisfy the amhp and s12 that the risks aren't high enough to justify detention.

If you are Nearest Relative you have rights under the MHA that it's important you understand. Your daughter has the right to appeal her detention at tribunal also, and the right to an IMHA which I strongly advise she makes use of.

There is a very high threshold for sectioning, and hospital places are severely limited. The fact that they haven’t been detained under section 5 suggests they have serious concerns. To go straight to a section 2 is OST certainly not undertaken if there is no need.

Most times families have to push for weeks for a person to be sectioned for their own good, all the time when they’re getting worse. Most times a section comes way beyond crisis point.

I think you might be in a little bit of denial about how unwell your daughter is and how much she can currently be trusted to make decisions for herself.

The threshold is very high. Every time my mother has been sectioned, she should have been an inpatient at least a week before. It has happened at times of absolute crisis when she has been extremely sick and at risk of harm. They don’t do it lightly at all and if your daughter has been sectioned, she will be very poorly indeed.

From reading and replying to the Op,s other thread Fuckery Her daughter was sectioned in A&E, a section 5(2)Dr,s holding power or section 5(4) nurses holding power is for in patients only hence the need for a section 2 but any way ime certainly in recent years beds are so scarce these days ,that sectioning someone is only done when absolutely necessary .

she wanted to finish the treatment four hours early so she could go home as she finds being in hospital very hard and noisy. She wanted to come home and sleep in her own room and then go to the day hospital.

Once she is in their care, to try to mitigate the effects of a life-threatening paracetamol overdose, it would have been negligent on the part of the medical staff to allow her to leave.

Her capacity assessment was troubling enough to get her admitted under MH Act. It won’t have been a lightly taken decision.

Instead of fighting it, your best bet is to get your DD to fully engage with the psychiatric team.

she wasn’t under a 5.2. The psychiatrist called a mental health act assessment as he said she wasn’t engaging with him. They then came spoke to her seemed to agree that she could go then detained her.

I hope she finishes her treatment for the physical effects of the overdose, and goes on to find good mental health treatment too. What a difficult situation for you both.

I don''t think it is glib or naive, I think OP has been on a emotional rollercoaster, desperately wants to go back to some sort of normality and having your child attempt to take their own life by overdosing and then be sectioned is about as far from that as you can get.
I imagine when you see your child survive this sort of trauma, there is probably a real need to diminish the reality of the threat they faced just to keep functioning yourself. I hope you have some good friends and family to support you through this OP.

OP I know this is really tough but you should be grateful she's getting the help she clearly needs

It’s extremely hard to get people sectioned,even if they desperately need to be. My sister has schizophrenia and was going through a series of psychotic episodes. She believed the the state was reading her mind, she accused every member of her family of being pedophiles and couldn’t eat/sleep/shower as she was so consumed by visual and auditory hallucinations. This took place in front of many doctors/police officers/ss. It took 4 years to get her sectioned.

I’m so sorry for what you’re both going through. It’s not done lightly - it’s essentially depriving someone of their liberty and therefore taken extremely seriously. There are thresholds that have to be met to ensure that your daughter isn’t detained inappropriately. They would only do it if they believed she was at immediate risk.

She has taken a potentially lethal overdose and then tried to end the treatment early. something has convinced the emergency psychiatric team that she isn’t in a mental state where she’s competent to make the decision herself. She will be in a safe place - please try and remember that.

There is nothing in this world worse than losing a child.
It is very, very hard to get help for mental health problems.
I appreciate that you and your dd have had a horrid experience, but they have saved her life and hopefully she has another chance.
I begged for help for my child but none was forthcoming.

It isn't lightly done. It is a very high threshold indeed.

I know nothing about sectioning but presumably being a suicide risk is not in itself enough to section? Because, hideously distressing though it is, people do have the right to take their own life don't they?
I'm sorry if I sound heartless, I don't at all mean to - but it seems to me that suicide should not necessarily be prevented by any means necessary. Perhaps it depends on whether or not the person seems to have a reasonable grasp of what they're doing and the potential consequences? Is that what it takes to prove 'capacity'?

Op, have just read your comments. Mh is more complex in terms of the patients opinion of treatment. The patient doesn’t have informed consent as they are compromised by their mh issues (depending on the severity). If the doctors are concerned that she will attempt suicide again as an outpatient then they will section her to keep her safe. You should be great full that they are offering her the appropriate care. I doubt they will keep her in once they are satisfied that she needs less intense observation. Honestly, I’ve seen so many people failed by the system that I’m actually surprised and pleased to hear they are trying to help your daughter.

The only way I can understand your opinion is if you believe she didn’t really mean to commit suicide- which is besides the point because she tried. It may have been on silly impulse and she didn’t realise how serious the outcome could have been, it may have been due to long term suffering. Either way, you don’t want her to do this again.