To think sectioning shouldn’t be done lightly

[User5022]

Eg used because an adult decided they didn’t want to rest of a treatment. I always assumed it had a really high threshold.

Sorry to say it but you should be incredibly grateful that your relative is being given the help they clearly need, when so many other people in desperate need are often turned away even in moments of great crisis.

A friend of mine was repeatedly sectioned and claimed it was for no reason and after the first time you can just be sitting at home and anyone can have you sectioned. Of course when I spoke to her family she was refusing to accept a diagnosis or treatment and it took months for them to get her help as they wouldn’t section her unless she was a danger to herself and others. She is now accepting medication but has essentially lost her son who chose to live with his father due to her illness and strange behaviour and can only see her supervised. She spent months pursuing a court case to regain equal access, which she was sure she would win. However she’d actually turn up in court ranting about nonsense, acting very clearly mentally unwell, and nothing was done for months. It was horrible.

Trust me, it ain't done lightly. I'm a CPN and I've had to fight long and hard ton get someone assessed under the MHA, let alone sectioned.

I think you may be feeling that the doctors have been high-handed with your daughter and not given her many options.

Given that sectioning is certainly not done lightly and in many, many cases isn't done in time (as so many suicides prove, sadly) it really is something which would have been done very much in your DD's best interests.

TBF OP, and I say this as the mother of someone who has had mh issues and who took a teeny tiny od 48 hours before oresenting themselves to a&e to make sure they hadn't harmed themselves and bloods were normal. In that case the hospital went iverboard and were disproportionate wanting to admit overnight for a camhs assessment for a 17 year old safety netted with a private consultant psychiatrist. Decisions were taken with dd's consent but without clarity if information. I was not telephoned for 4 hours and they did not therefore contact the psych or gp. This was for a camhs assessment which could not take place until the following day. When I arrived it emerged a mh assessment was available for 16/17 year olds between 8am and 3am via the adult team but A&E nurses hadn't been aware and neither was the paed dr. As far as I am concerned dd's rights were violated on a number of levels and there was later an apology and meeting with the ceo.

Your dd has taken an od of paracetamol significant enough to affect her bloods. Surely it is basic common sense that she stays to complete the treatment, be assessed and for an appropriate crisis and care plan to be put in place. I say that as a parent who has witnessed sub-optimal understanding of mh in an over zealous a&e dept.

You dd needs to stay and if the won'tvstay voluntarily she must stay on a section and I assume a decision has been made about capacity. If she has capacity to decide not to be treated and you are happy to be a party to her potential suicide then go right ahead and challenge the decision making process leading to the section.

I say that as a parent who has witnessed sub-optimal understanding of mh in an over zealous a&e dept

As do I.

Ive worked in acute psychiatry- including locked wards and it ISNT done lightly. Where on earth did you get this impression? You act as if professionals are just eagerly waiting to section someone for lack of something to do. We aren't. We hate doing it, it goes against everything we hold dear but it has to be done not only for the safety of the individual but also for the safety of others. If someone is having a florid psychotic episode or attempting suicide they HAVE to be sectioned for their own safety. Its not easy to section someone, you have to have legal paperwork, and the go ahead of a doctor or an approved social worker. I have personally seen social workers get horrendous abuse and threatened with physical violence by family members for sectioning their loved ones when actually- they probably saved their lives. Until you work in that environment, you have no idea just what it takes out of you to do this job. Its not easy, it isn't taken lightly and the burn out rate for professionals is extremely high. Ive seen many colleagues go off on long term sick with stress.

I don't think sectioning is done lightly at all and I say this as someone who was sectioned my self 25 years ago with psychotic depression following my son's birth.
I had been ill within hours of his birth but wasn't sectioned until the month of his first birthday. I had agreed to all treatments including ECT and was taking over recommended maximum doses of multiple medications but I wasn't getting better and I was sectioned because they feared I'd take my life.
I don't actually remember when it happened but apparently, according to my husband, my language was ripe (and I'm usually quite prim ) and I was very distressed.
Am I glad I was sectioned? Yes, definitely, however much I hated those 28 days because I got better, I got to raise my children, I didn't leave them motherless and life has been good. I even had another baby with no problems.
It's really difficult to see that it's needed when you are in the mire I think and for me I didn't see or appreciate that it was needed until much later.
Sending very best wishes to you and your relative OP

It's my experience that it's the opposite as pp have said. The threshold for intervention in psychiatric illness is really high.

It's my experience that it's the opposite as pp have said. The threshold for intervention in psychiatric illness is really high.

Absolutely agree with this.

Presuming this was you also yesterday asking a question about how long it'd take

Find your attitude really bizarre. Why are you so hurried and focused on time

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3712311-Mental-health-act-assessment?pg=2

Sectioning someone under the mental Health Act is never done lightly. And yes it is necessary if people need treatment they are refusing because of their mental health.

It can't be easily done and can be legally questioned at certain points once it is done.

My experience is that it’s done very lightly indeed.

It’s hard to see your own child so upset about something. I’m not convinced an Acute ward will help a vulnerable young adult where she will be scared. Hence wise she wanted to work with them in the day services.

Sectioning certainly isn't done lightly, I've seen this professionally - you can be in an absolutely horrific place mentally and not even be seriously considered for sectioning. You have to be deemed a high risk to yourself or others, it's not done just because they fancy it, mental health units haven't got anywhere near the space for that!! Four hours left of treatment might seem trivial to you but they obviously had concerns about your daughter's health and, unpleasant as it might look being the parent, they're trying to look after her.

It's not done lightly at all. If this is your daughter just going from your posts says you aren't quite accepting of how ill she is.

@User5022

I am sorry about your daughter, you must be very worried about her. I haven't read your other thread, but you are contradicting yourself in this one. In your OP you said because an adult decided they didn’t want to rest of a treatment, but now you just said she wanted to work with them in the day services.. But which is it? MH services definitely not not section lightly, please work WITH them and not against them. Assure your daughter you are there for her, but that she needs to trust the MH team to help her. Show her that you trust them too and believe in them. She needs to trust the process for it to work, if she sees you arguing against it, it won't help her.

If has other MH / drug issues then the paracetamol overdose, however minor, could just be the start of multiple suicide attempts. Often sectioning can be a good way to get someone treated early.

It’s hard to see your own child so upset about something. I’m not convinced an Acute ward will help a vulnerable young adult where she will be scared. Hence wise she wanted to work with them in the day services

I get this. Acute wards are rarely the nicest of places however the 3 professionals required to enact the section clearly disagree with you that she can managed as a day patient. If it's anything like where I am beds, especially female beds, are like gold dust. They never take the decision lightly.

It is incredibly difficult to see someone you love in distress, you want what you believe is best for them.
Not completing life saving treatment is not working with people. A significant improvement in their bloods suggests there was a significant improvement to be made ?
I think most people can understand your concerns about an inpatient stay but those beds are like gold dust, using one is never done flippantly.

she wanted to finish the treatment four hours early so she could go home as she finds being in hospital very hard and noisy. She wanted to come home and sleep in her own room and then go to the day hospital.

@User5022

Deciding to refuse the last four hours of life-saving treatment because she finds hospital very hard and noisy should not be a realistic reason for stopping it, though.

You do not seem to have much insight into her illness - and clearly she hasn't, either.

NAC isn't given for fun. Your DD took a paracetamol overdose and didn't want to finish it. Her reasons were specious and lacked insight.

Please, and I mean this kindly, don't view this admission as a "them and us" situation. It doesn't sound like your DD has full mental capacity at the moment.

How did she go about wanting to leave early ? Did she ask nursing staff to stop the infusion ? Did she remove her cannula ? Or did she refuse to have another infusion started ?

I wouldn't say they always get it right, everyone makes mistakes, sometimes tragically, but it is a serious decision, not made on a whim.
It's a shame there aren't more young people's units. A suicide attempt is a serious matter and can have long term effects even if survived.