To think that lots of people don't understand just how many jobs pay minimum wage.

[TravellingSpoon]

And how many jobs they would consider worthy of higher wages do not get them.

I am a support worker, and we were talking about this in our staff room this morning. Many of us have had similar experiences, people who cannot believe how little we get paid, or that we would do it for such a small amount of money. And we get 19p above the current minimum wage. Similarly with a couple of my colleagues who have backgrounds in nursery.

Im happy as I am, thanks basketofkittens.

It's true, but conversely many on NMW don't understand how geopolitics work and think that the 'left' is out for their cause with a general 'no borders/open immigration' stance.

There is no quick simple solution otherwise it would have been put in place in more nordic countries (which are far more harsh on recent immigrants than what we are) and why Labour are only offering 50p more per hour than the current government.

It isn't anything to do with the miniscule zero hour contracts (thanks Labour), it is part and parcel of globalisation.

Both sides need to understand the nuance of the situation but as is common in the internet age, its just become tribal.

I'm all for the NMW (and agree it should be more). I absolutely agree that those working in care etc should be on much more.

I have to agree with some PP. When I first started in the NHS 15 years ago my salary was classed as 'good'. Due to no pay increases over the last few years (although admittedly we've had a pitiful pay increase spread over 3 years recently) the NMW is slowly creeping up to my salary.

As a senior secretary I'm responsible for managing staff - delegating work load, authorising annual leave, sorting out day to day conflicts in the team, managing sickness policy - basically a manager without the recompense.

While the NMW has crept up I'm on a pitiful £13 an hour. My Consultant's private secretary is on £20 an hour. I'm lucky in that my Consultant appreciates me and ever couple of months will give me a cheque of a few hundred pounds as he knows I'm underpaid for the level of responsibility I have.

It’ll all end with the 0.01% living in armed palaces with robot servants and the rest of us scrambling around in the dust for food. There won’t be any jobs.

Either that or a nuclear winter.

ImGoingToBangYourHeadsTogether

Voluntary work is definitely now expected, my younger cousin has recently got her first job in retail and she never leaves on time as she has to do the stock checks and tidying after the store closes. She doesn't get paid for this and when she asked her employer if she would? They apparently looked at her as if she grew another head!

What's even worse is the amount of people forced to work on a self-employed basis for the gig economy and don't even earn minimum wage, let alone get sick pay, holiday or any employment rights. It's a bloody scandal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying those on nmw are in a good position either! It's like there's a race to the bottom for a certain section of the workforce, and the divide between the haves and have nots is just getting wider.

In the eyes of the Elite, there are far too many of us. Probably planning the next war or pandemic to kill a couple of billion off.

I did shop work back in the 90s and we never left on time. I moved to a different shop. We never left there on time either, but it wasn't as bad (10 mins not half an hour). So that isn't a new thing.

I think it's also depends where you live, our local Aldi is advertising for staff and is offering more than NMW. If people see that they assume that other roles, in schools and health care and so on must pay at least the same or higher.

When people complain about childcare fees i wish they would remember that the majority of the staff looking after their children earn minimum wage.

What's even worse is the amount of people forced to work on a self-employed basis for the gig economy and don't even earn minimum wage, let alone get sick pay, holiday or any employment rights. It's a bloody scandal.

You can thank the previous Labour government for that situation, quick populist policies (a la corbyn) has long term effects, could hint at why a long term EU skeptic has become leader of the opposition and why it is actually those who have little understanding of geopolitics/economics was chanting pro corbyn rants at glastobury and on MN.

It's really, really bad. I used to work for Ipsos Morí and you'd only get paid per answered questionnaire. to get 8 hours pay (of MW) your have to work 10-12hrs. It was the most demoralising job I've ever had. Now I'm on NMW but it's office based and 8-4, I see it as a wonderful thing even though the money is still pants. hopefully I'll get a payrise a completely different role once I get back from ML.

OP as soon as I saw Post title I thought 'Support Worker'.

Mental Health Support workers are paid a pitiful rate, there are jobs on Indeed right now from £8.29ph. Numerous duties in job description including travelling around to clients. The Person Spec in no way matches the 'Salary'. They want great staff for crap pay.

I also won't eat out anymore unless the food comes in a wrapper as Hospitality Staff are shouted at and pressured, ludicrously low wages and long hours, so hygiene standards slip in the rush and stress. Morale is low. The customer at the front sees and hears none of this.

I know I'm stating the bloody obvious but what shocks me is not that so many people are only paid minimum wage but how hard some people have to work for it. Factory work, care work, restaurant work etc can be brutal.
One of my DC does a job which is paid just above minimum wage and where they literally have to race around all day. It's full on All the time. They only get two 20 min breaks, no job security and unsociable hours. They also end up working over their hours for no pay 😡. It's much harder than any job I've had.
(Fortunately DC is only doing the job short term. )

My DD works in a fast food place, she gets 20p above MW, she earns more than my friend in her 40's, whose a TA and she doesn't work for free, when they stay over they get free food. She also earns more than the Support Workers in Mental health.

"" One of my DC does a job which is paid just above minimum wage and where they literally have to race around all day. It's full on All the time. They only get two 20 min breaks, no job security and unsociable hours. They also end up working over their hours for no pay""

I'm in my 50's, I've been ill and I'm looking to get back into work next year. I have friends similar ages and have health issues. We are expected to compete with the under 25's, in the search for jobs. Realistically we don't stand a chance. Especially as most of us have at least three monthly appointments at clinics.

Basketofkittens care worker of 26yrs here .I worked bloody hard to get my nvq3 and my team leader nvq.I do care work with the elderly and also have been a ld support worker at one time was a team leader and would at time be responsible person in charge of the home if management happened to be off shift .This was very challenging behaviour where you could and did get hit by service users .Also have been senior care in charge of a team of carers .No skill in this ? .
Whether you meant it or not your op was patronising and rude to any fellow care worker on here .We don't do 9-5 we do long unsociable hrs and we do it because we care we don't sit behind a desk we work with people who without us in my case a a community carer would be unable to stay at home.I am damm proud my job and i don't care if this comes across as a rant .To my fellow care workers including redvodkabull you are all amazing .
I am clever enough to be a nurse but i don't want to be .I have an amazing boss who does actually pay well above nmw a rarity for care i agree who mucks in with care and us just amazing too .
I have the privilege of working with some lovely families. There are some incredible stressful days i have gone into people who have passed away i could go on .But the good days far out weigh the bad .I have a lot of skill and knowledge stored in my head.
I will leave this here now .

I don't think people realise how little support workers are paid.

I know in one supported living accommodation with people with mental health conditions, the support workers there only get paid 18k. I couldn't believe how little they got paid for the work they did and the responsibility they had.

My sister works in a school in a deprived area. She works with a lot of troubled children and often gets verbally and physically abused. For her role, she gets paid 18k.

It is awful the amount of responsibility they place on people for so little pay.

ukgift2016, in Liverpool those jobs can pay as little as £15k a year.

My DD started in MH and has worked her way upto management. When she was an acting Manager, which meant doing Staff Rotas/appraisals, managing budgets, attending MAPPA meetings, liaising with families/professionals, as well as hands-on with service users. She was on £18k. There were days she worked 15 hours and got time off in lieu. Which often meant a few hours here and there, rather than days off. But she still had to be available to take phone calls.

If employers couldn’t get the staff they would have to pay more. They are inundated with applicants hence they pay minimum wages or as close to as they can.
A lot of effort goes into creating these inundations of applicants.
I don't know about other sectors, but I know care agencies spend a lot of money advertising in other countries, including Australia and South Africa, to get care workers. They get government subsidies to train those workers, even when they don't give them any work. It's an income stream in itself for the bigger agencies.

Then, as other posters have pointed out, unemployed British people are penalised if they don't apply for a certain number of jobs per week, no matter how unsuited they are to the jobs.

It's not simply a matter of supply and demand. Wages are deliberately subjected to downward pressure, both by businesses and by government, using a variety of tactics.

I was talking with a group of community nurses yesterday about how night services for people were lacking. It's no wonder is it. There is little incentive to do very hard jobs for so little pay. We value IT skills much higher than care skills in this country.

I've been a carer and worked in retail.
Carer is a lot more involved and you do have to work for your money which is fine as your are in someones home helping them.
Retail just do the bare minimum you can get away with. I also had an almighty row with head office who expect me to close the shop at closing time and give them 10 minutes of my free time afterwards to lock the door.
I always closed 10 minutes early. They didnt like it but when the company is making massive profits sorry but they can fuck off thinking I'm going to work for free.

Retail just do the bare minimum you can get away

And poor service is one of the reasons why the high street retail is dying a slow death. So staff "doing the bare minimum" are shooting themselves in the foot I'm afraid.

“A term similar in nature to unskilled labor is low-skilled labor. While low-skilled labor also denotes a lack of education or training necessary in order to become employed, it may be seen as slightly different from unskilled labor depending on the context. It may require basic skills training for the work to be completed successfully. Low-skilled positions may include entry-level positions within food service and retail environments as well as home health care workers.”

www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unskilled-labor.asp

That’s the technical term for some roles. I didn’t just make it up. It doesn’t mean that you are worthless or stupid or lazy. It’s a term to classify occupations. It doesn’t mean that you don’t work hard or do an emotionally demanding job.it doesn’t mean that you don’t do a good job or a needed job.

Fruit pickers, cleaners, waiters etc are classed as unskilled labour. The person doing the job might have a degree, they might have an NVQ2 in agriculture. That job is needed. But it doesn’t make it skilled.

“Skilled labor professions differ from highly-skilled occupations. Lawyers, doctors, architects, and public accountants (UK: chartered accountants) are have highly-skilled occupations.

Examples of skilled labor professions include law enforcement officers, mechanics, and roofers (roof specialists).”

www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/migrated/files/employment-progression-skills-full.pdf

That’s an interesting read.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21461519

@Basketofkittens Jesus you're lucky. I'm in a graduate job and I only make £10 an hour.

How about ambulance call handlers? Band 3 (ok there's an antisocial hours payment)
That's massively underpaid for the stress and skills needed