To think that lots of people don't understand just how many jobs pay minimum wage.

[TravellingSpoon]

And how many jobs they would consider worthy of higher wages do not get them.

I am a support worker, and we were talking about this in our staff room this morning. Many of us have had similar experiences, people who cannot believe how little we get paid, or that we would do it for such a small amount of money. And we get 19p above the current minimum wage. Similarly with a couple of my colleagues who have backgrounds in nursery.

Yes the LUXURY end of retail is seeing growth. Here is a handy graph

www.statista.com/statistics/484482/united-kingdom-uk-luxury-retail-market-growth/

We are talking about high street not designer.

Because people havent got any money to spend in those stores.

Plenty of stores are doing well and expanding.

@HelenaDove

Unless I am misinterpreting it that shows that all retail sectors continue to grow?

Lidl and Aldi are both experiencing growth whilst the big four are struggling....

Some interesting posts about retail on this thread. Might be of interest to those of you who work in it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3707779-To-think-the-back-to-60-campaign-is-grabby?pg=1

@TooManyPaws

Care workers certainly do not have to register and do a fitness to work panel - registered managers do, but not care workers. As for mandatory training - agreed we do have to do that - I did mine in less than three hours, at home on my phone this weekend.
Still minimum wage though. Seniors get a couple of quid more an hour.

I worked in hospitality and retail from aged 16-27.
In my early 20s I became and events manager across a few hotels. I got paid £20k to plan and run everything from conferences, wedding etc. I worked 17 hour shifts regularly, often didn't get days off, never got to use my holidays (I couldn't be off when an even was on, and they were on all the time).
Peoples weddings mean so much to them, it was a lot of pressure! And I got screamed nearly every day. Chair covers weren't white enough, the room was too hot, this guests didn't want to sit next to that guest, no one ordered the vegan meal so the vegan couldn't eat, there were too many children or their children couldn't come, someone didn't like the first dance song and on and on and on.
I had a very high staff turn over due to the type of work. It always happens. People come, they have to hit the ground running and work hard, deal with shit from guests then leave.
Rather than fix the problems with the industry, they work them til they leave then hire new, fresh doe eyed optimists who think it's a dream job until the joy is sucked out of them.
People told me I was so lucky to have such a fun job, a job where I got groped constantly, was constantly exhausted and wasn't even allowed time off to see my dying grandparent on their last birthday as there was an event.
Yes technically it wasnt minimum wage, but with the hours I actually worked, it ended up less.
I now work in a boring office job and I savour every second of it. I'm quite well paid for this type of role, never earned this amount before, only work 35 hours a week, I have weekends and evenings back, I have Christmas with my family! No one shouts at me or gropes me. My life is mine again, not my careers. I don't think I realised how unhappy I was.
I know HCPs obviously have a more important job, but weddings matter and considering how much people paid for their wedding, some events were worth more than I was paid in a year. It's really hard to work so hard on an event which literally cost more than my wage and know that I was struggling to pay my bills that month.
Oh and because I was manager I didn't wear the uniform, but was expected to wear formal dresses in the events colour scheme and heels. I couldn't afford this but had to so literally got myself into debt as a result.

As for mandatory training - agreed we do have to do that - I did mine in less than three hours on my phone

I thought all carers had to do svq/nvq now?
You can't do that in 3 hours it takes months.

On top of qualifications necessary for the role, employers demand mandatory training specific to them.

Fire safety, patient/load handling, waste disposal, hygiene (with supervised hand washing) and so on.

This has to be done on our own time.

The trouble with introducing the minimum wage is that it has actually become the maximum wage.

Yes technically it wasnt minimum wage, but with the hours I actually worked, it ended up less.

This! This is a very widespread, successful way of abusing staff. And if they ask to be paid for the hours they actually work they are accused of doing the bare minimum, not going the extra mile and having a bad attitude.

@CoalTit

This was highlighted by a thread a few weeks ago. The OP felt it was unfair that they had to set up (necessary for them to do the job) but not get paid for that part. It surprised me how many people agreed that they shouldn't get paid. And how many people objected to staff closing a shop in time for them to finish on time and not work unpaid overtime. While I agree that if a shop advertises being open until 5pm, it should be, I think the business should be the one to absorb the cost of things that need doing after closing like cleaning and cashing up, or customers that refuse to leave until 5.10pm because it's only 10 minutes, and not the staff. But customers demand it, and companies demand it and workers lose out. I've had to wait an nearly an hour for the next bus, regularly, when I should be able to make it easily for the one I could get if I actually finished when I was supposed to, that'd be fine if I'd have been paid for the time I had to stay, but I didn't. But try and do something about it and you're not a team player and not committed. If I turned up for work 20/30 minutes late most shifts I'd at least be docked that pay, followed by disciplinary action and the sack if I carried on.

Yes, the problem of 'hidden hours', is rife in the sector in which I work. For example, I may be allocated 10 projects a week which pay £10 a project. They have to be completed and returned within 5 days of allocation. If each project took 1 hour to complete, then I would be working for £10 an hour for 10 hours a week, which is not bad for part time work. However, if the projects take twice as long, then I would be working for less than minimal wage. Add to that the fact that the work has to be detailed and professional and that people who work on the projects must be education/industry specialists, and you get into the realm of the ridiculous.

In another role, the rate of pay is £12 per hour, again 'workers' (we are not employees of the company) have to be post-graduates. The work is fulfilling intrinsically, but deduct from the hourly rate the cost of travelling 30 or 40 miles on public transport with no travel expenses, and the hourly rate is reduced significantly.

One may ask why people take on such roles and another lie is revealed. Like many other 'freelancers' or 'zero hours' workers, I took on the roles because it offered the flexibility to fit in with caring responsibilities. However, I cannot dictate how many or how few hours (or projects) I will work. If I 'refuse' three assignments, my 'agreement' (there is no contract of employment) is terminated. Under such agreements, I have no sickness or holiday pay either.

If I added up the hours I work in the four part time posts I have undertaken, they would exceed the maximum stipulated under the EU Working Hours Directive. However, how many companies will care about that after 31st October?

Hidden hours are crap. But they’re rife in many sectors, difference is you obviously don’t drop so far below NMW. Most jobs have 37 contracted hours but actually expect you to work 24/7. There’s an assumption that everyone should sell their soul to work. It’s really sad. The value on family time etc has just dwindled.

Just seen this on the back to 60 thread

You can make up a similar amount to state pension by working just a couple of days per week in a minimum wage job. It's not as if those who are "suffering" have to work full time in a high pressure/intensive job

Think i will still be working after i retire lol, they always need agency carers.

Yes cos companies will be falling over themselves to emplpy 66+ yr olds when they can get an apprentice £4 p/h cheaper! Or a teen at £2 p/h cheaper.

I think I would expect support workers to be on the low end of pay scales, it's pretty common. It's not really a job you'd go into if you were expecting a career, and dont think it requires qualifications?

I think nvq 1 and 2 are pretty low level quals but they do take some time to do as you need people to sign off bits you have done. It's a qualification you do through work, so lots of new starters wont have done it.

I have done warehouse work although it is not my area of expertise,but I am weird and strangely loved it.Min wage zero hours.I would say 95 per cent of the staff were Polish,Romanian etc.
This is in a town where most of the population come for 6 months work and go back to their previous country.And the town is mainly a base for lots of other warehouses all paying minimum,all staffed by Europeans.
They pay bad because they can keep getting another few hundred from Europe every few months.

Care workers certainly do not have to register and do a fitness to work panel - registered managers do, but not care workers. As for mandatory training - agreed we do have to do that - I did mine in less than three hours, at home on my phone this weekend.

I must have imagined all the preparation with our care staff in the run up to registration over the past couple of years, and my senior solicitor friend must be imagining all the times she has spent as panel chair, deciding on someone's fitness to be on or remain on the register. SVQs are required to be completed within a time frame and you most certainly can't do those on your mobile or in a few hours as they are a national qualification.

www.sssc.uk.com/registration/who-can-register/
learn.sssc.uk.com/careers/social-services-and-healthcare/aidan-sarah-and-blair/index.html

What sort of sloppy government doesn't even regulate the people caring for its most vulnerable? Ours certainly does.

So surely this must correlate with stagnant wages as a plentiful supply of labour and the money paid here may seem to go further in other economies

@TooManyPaws

What sort of sloppy government doesn't even regulate the people caring for its most vulnerable?

The English one it would seem. Scotland and Wales require care staff to be registered (a quick Google has told me) but it's not something that happens in England and no plans to as far as I'm aware. Not sure about Ireland.
I've said for a long time care staff should be registered, with mandatory minimum levels of training (and I don't mean an online first aid course, I mean proper, structured training) but of course that will cost care providers money. My personal thoughts are that profit made from care homes should be limited to a certain % or amount to ensure the money paid by or on behalf of service users is actually going into care and not into profits. Ideally I'd like to see the whole sector as non profit, but I doubt that's feasible or achievable. It's the main reason I got out of care. But that's a whole other thread.
Do care/support workers command a better wage in Scotland/Wales I wonder because of the higher standards?

Can i just say, ive never done an online course, it has always been done at work. This February I went on a 3 day course with a proper instructor, paid for by work.

Never know that in Scotland you had to be registed as a carer or in Wales.

@vodkaredbullgirl

It wasn't a dig at care workers when I said about an online first aid course, it was a dig at care providers that seem to think that these courses are an adequate substitute for real on the job training and a structured training plan for new staff. And they do it because it's cheap and ticks boxes with the CQC.
I did a lot of courses in my own time, and at my own expense for some of them because I felt I needed those skills to do the job properly and they weren't insisted upon or even offered by all but one of my care employers.
All care workers should be given the chance to learn the skills that make them good at what they do and not at their own expense either which is often the case. Being honest, I've had more training offered working in a hotel than I did in some care settings. The good care workers are the ones who seek out the best practice and use it, who apply themselves to whatever is offered and look for more. They should have this as standard. Some employers do that, but a lot do the barest minimum - yet expect far more than their training teaches. Just shouldn't be like that, the care staff taking the responsibility to provide their own training to improve care standards, that should fall at the feet of the provider.
Seen (and been!) Plenty of poor care staff. Yet to see a poor provider.

Luckly where I work we have mandatory training every year. Working nights sometimes get in the way, especially if you have worked that night. Not had to pay for any training, thank god.