To think that lots of people don't understand just how many jobs pay minimum wage.

[TravellingSpoon]

And how many jobs they would consider worthy of higher wages do not get them.

I am a support worker, and we were talking about this in our staff room this morning. Many of us have had similar experiences, people who cannot believe how little we get paid, or that we would do it for such a small amount of money. And we get 19p above the current minimum wage. Similarly with a couple of my colleagues who have backgrounds in nursery.

Oh dear, some people seem very angry. You will note that I’ve already said that care workers do a “hard and underpaid job.” But it’s a fact that it’s not classed as a highly skilled job. It doesn’t require a degree or higher qualifications. It pays £8.21 an hour (or whatever) as that’s what the care provider can get away with paying.

That’s why qualified nurses earn more, they have a nursing qualification that gives them a skill. Same with civil engineers, teachers, accountants etc.

And yes, I have NVQs myself so I do have a vague understanding! I wouldn’t class myself as highly skilled with an NVQ2 in business admin.

Businesses can pay £18k for admin staff as hundreds of people will apply for it. Again, admin isn’t classed as a highly skilled role. The market is flooded with administrators who can do a half-decent job.

I’m not saying that any of it is right or fair. But it is what it is.

It also helps not to identify yourself as your job. If you earn minimum wage doing whatever it doesn’t define you. It’s just a job. And it’s certainly not worth getting wound up on a forum talking to random internet people.

I don’t think people realise how many public sector jobs are low paying. Ie education or NHS. Also the amount of people who have degrees have a low paid job. There seems to be an assumption that you go to uni and then get a fab job with pay to match at the end of it. That might have been the case until a few years ago but not now

^^
See basketof kittens we are not just carers, we deal with everything that gets thrown at us.

vodkaredbullgirl - where did I say you were “just” a carer?

I note you said that you are very happy with your life and that’s great. You don’t have to convince me.

I think what is glaringly obvious is that all the sectors that we’ve discussed being notorious for paying NMW (care, retail, hospitality) are very female dominated.

I was looking at jobs the other day and painters and decorators were being paid £15ph. I’m not at all saying that they don’t deserve this but the disparity between that and say a care workers wage is glaring.

Ive worked in care for well over 27 yrs, I do most of the things a nurse does, only thing i dont do is injections or prepare drips with medication in them.

When i worked days, i had to deal with all medication, paperwork, doctor rounds and district nurses. Having to deal with phone calls, relatives and be there for people on end of life. Having to sit for many hours with resident who were dying, as relatives were too upset or couldnt be there.

I could go on and on lol

This is why we need strong worker rights and people to stand up for those rights. They can fight for higher wages and better conditions.

It’s no coincidence that wages have fallen as unions have weakened.

It as always in the interest of the rich to paint the unions as out of touch, as bullies etc but ultimately that’s how you get things to be better for more people

What I find more surprising is when someone on MN reports that a job is poorly paid, but about a job earning £25-£30,000 pa, so quite a bit more than minimum wage, and what I would consider a decent salary.

It frustrating and devastating how unfair wages are and just how many people are struggling. I earn more then a nurse, teacher, police officer, care worker etc but I know I don’t work harder. But my job is somehow deemed to be one that should include a higher wage. But why? Capitalism I assume? I just don’t know what the solution is.

I always find it totally laughable when someone highly paid wants to drop to a NMW job because it will be stress free. So arrogant.

In many care settings the care assistants do almost as much as the nurses due to lack of staff.
Doing an nvq in care is a long laborious process with training days and being observed at work not to mention mountains of standards to.meet in writing.

Add on moving and handling, dementia care mapping, writing care plan training, understanding patients illnesses and complications arc etc. It's not something you learn quickly.

I remember when I worked in a care home as a nurse going through applications. We hired one lady who.seemed really keen and eager to.learn. She lasted half a shift as she hasn't grasped the fact that she wouldn't be "sitting around with the old dears" (her words) knitting and making cups of tea but dealing with personal.care and people with varying stages of dementia.

Basketofkittens whether you like it pointed out or not your 1st post was very dismissive and uninformed.

I often think NMW jobs are more stressful than any of the”professional” office jobs I’ve had! Dealing with the public, abuse, bodily fluids, being your feet all day, working unsocial hours, dealing with distressed people, palliative care giving etc.

Yes the wages haven't risen and people are expected to do more and more. Where I used to work in the late 80s/90s there was a proper pay scale and the money was reasonable.

Currently in a different field it isn't in comparison and no pay scale or increments

The problem is even if everyone suddenly was able to go and get a degree, there are still only a finite number of each type of job. Then of course the minimum wage jobs still need to be done by someone.

It’s hard to compare directly as I’m in Australia but my job would likely be minimum wage in many places in the UK but here it’s 50% above Australian minimum wage, working for the state government. Cost of living is pretty high here of course but still, I’m in a pretty good position really partly just through luck.

Willow2017 - okay, well that’s your opinion that you are free to hold.

By the way, I used to be an ICU staff nurse so I do have a vague inkling of what care assistants do.

Yy I now have a professional job and there’s a lot less stress - don’t deal with arsehole customers, get to sit down most of the day, weekends off etc. And I tell you what really helps to deal with stress - having enough fucking money!

Do you.have any idea of the skills needed to look after for example the elderly or infirm patient? How to cope with dementia in all its forms from the constant screeching to full on aggression or crying because they cannot recognise their own family or don't know why they can't go home? Never mind the personal care, terminal care, dealing with falls, other illnesses, moving and handling issues, encouraging independence. It's not a one size fits all job.

Similarly any form of education or care role with special needs kids - they have similar training needs, plus they're assigned to educate and develop the child. Bloody saints those people are: being bitten or attacked is a regular hazard, not to mention dealing with verbal abuse. Damn right it's harder than cushy office and managerial jobs Basket, and require the skills and abilities of educators anywhere. Still considered 'unskilled' and paid not much above minimum.

I have noticed though that a lot of NMW jobs now are also zero contract hours, which really is a kick in the teeth. When I left school (over a decade ago) it was either part time or full time and if you wanted to be flexible then temp roles. Now people don't really get the option, which is putting more people under financial pressure.

So basketof kittens you were an ICU Nurse, why you not doing it now and in a total different career?

Just curious

Vodkaredbull. I absolutely agree that care assistants often cover a good percentage of the tasks that a nurse would be expected to do. Additionally, whatever they may say, most hospital staff do not have a clue how to deal with dementia patients .

Basketofkittens you are lucky to be paid £12 an hour for an admin role that just involves sitting around and occasionally answering a phone. In a lot of public service settings £12 is higher admin/supervisor level and someone with s lot of responsibility and probably covering the jobs of 3 people as cost cutting means that vacancies aren't covered.

So it’s very well moaning on Mumsnet but what are you actually going to do about it?

I’m genuinely curious. We all agree that minimum wage, zero hour contracts are crap and unfair, as is Universal Credit. Being poor is miserable. What’s the solution?

Increasing automation is coming for white collar jobs.

There's also much more voluntary work going than there used to be, and much greater expectation of working for free. In fact I've had people tell me recently that not expecting to work for free is having 'high expectations' and demonstrating that I'm too used to better, and posh. Sod off is my only answer to that, especially when coming from those born to much more secure situations or older generations than mine - look at the house prices ffs.

A couple of pp bemoaned our willingness to 'give away hard earned rights'. I'm not quite clear which rights were referred to, but the simple fact is that we don't have a choice any more. There's no legal recourse, there's no jobs that pay, and the cost of living is high.

Im in my 50s and i doubt i would be able to do a nursing degree.

If i stuck with it many moons ago, i could have been a nurse.

shinynewapple - I’ve had a fair number of bullshit jobs requiring very little and paying okay money. Paying far more than £12 an hour. There’s a whole book on and it internet postings. Bullshit jobs are pretty common.

Vodkaredbull - many nurses leave as I’m sure you know for varying reasons. It didn’t make me happy any more and I’m a big believer in never staying in a role you dislike. You’re a long time dead.

vodkaredbullgirl - have you looked at the nursing apprentice / associate schemes?