To think that lots of people don't understand just how many jobs pay minimum wage.

[TravellingSpoon]

And how many jobs they would consider worthy of higher wages do not get them.

I am a support worker, and we were talking about this in our staff room this morning. Many of us have had similar experiences, people who cannot believe how little we get paid, or that we would do it for such a small amount of money. And we get 19p above the current minimum wage. Similarly with a couple of my colleagues who have backgrounds in nursery.

And poor service is one of the reasons why the high street retail is dying a slow death. So staff "doing the bare minimum" are shooting themselves in the foot I'm afraid
NO - Retailers refusing to pay decent wages are shooting themselves in the foot. They are losing far more money than the worker on minimum wage (or pennies more) who have to buy their own uniform, be on the floor ready to work 5 for minutes before they start getting paid and doing extra unpaid duties after the shop shuts and their pay stops.

Male dominated unskilled jobs - refuse workers, sewers, although low paid are rarely close to minimum. Brickies, plumbers, plasterers - all 'skills' that are mainly down to practice and experience are paid way way way above minimum wage. Labourers on building sites are still on well over minimum wage unless they are new.

And the main point of my post. Jobs that are on low contracted hours, where the worker generally gets twice as many or more a week. Think 8 hour contract but -all- most weeks works 16 to 20 or even 24 hours, still only gets 8 hours pay for holiday weeks - thus effectively getting less than minimum wage when 4 weeks holidays are taken into account

And the main point of my post. Jobs that are on low contracted hours, where the worker generally gets twice as many or more a week. Think 8 hour contract but -all- most weeks works 16 to 20 or even 24 hours, still only gets 8 hours pay for holiday weeks - thus effectively getting less than minimum wage when 4 weeks holidays are taken into account

Yes, (and a friend had this issue) are then jumped on by the dwp if they need top ups from UC because in those weeks they're not meeting the minimum hours requirements.

Companies should not be allowed to take on new employees if they already have part time employees wanting higher hour contracts.

I've recently seen an advert for an accounts person, requiring qualifications, considerable experience, Sage knowledge etc etc etc.

The salary on offer in 2019 was less than I was earning in 1998 for doing an almost identical role.

vidkaredbullgirl I am sorry to hear about your DD and her NMW plight.

There are about three to six jobs in forensics that come up every year. And how many graduates? She was misadvised to go into it.

I speak as the mother of a DS determined to go into Graphic Design.

Someone having a different opinion to you doesn’t make them a goady fucker. Some people have a chip on their shoulder because they earn minimum wage and don’t have a degree. Don’t blame others for that

I don't have a chip.on my shoulder. 20yrs in nursing, running my own business and a variety of qualifications I don't need a degree thanks. I am not so arrogant to think.thst a min wage job is demeaning to me either. I know how hard you have yo work.
I know people in various jobs who are doing exceedingly well on their own merits but don't have a degree.

A degree doesn't = a guaranteed well paying job.

A degree doesn't mean you are actually amazing at your job.

Continually saying people who work with some of the most vulnerable people in society for min wage aren't worth more is being a gf.

I get Carers Allowance of £9 a day.. I do your job 24/7 6 days a week

With falling birth rates and increasing numbers of elderly soon the only work available will be caring for the elderly, but there will be no one to do it because no one can afford to have children anymore

Regardless really if some believe social care work is a low skilled job or high skilled job, the fact is is that paying carers minimum wage is what is putting the industry and the service users in jeopardy. Many people now don't want to work in this sector because of the high expectations put on them and the low pay they recieve and carers are leaving the sector in droves.

In the long run, this is going to screw over the populations most vulnerable people than anything else. Support they will recieve will be less, unintentional neglect will rise, waiting times will increase and their independence will start to demise as they will not be recieving the adequate support.

Even this article that was written 2 years ago about the state of care and calls for a change is still the same, nothing has changed. Unless they pay carers more for the work they are doing and allow career progression, the sector will topple.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/care-home-workers-half-leave-jobs-within-year-staffing-levels-problem-report-communities-and-local-a7658281.html

@Fandoozle1

I am genuinely shocked. You are hardly on a par with a generic checkout worker.

Usually on middle class MN, it's only when student teenager gets a part time job that posters start complaining about how low minimum wage is.

Other than that they couldn't care less.

Lol @ generic checkout worker

Sainsburys pay 9.20 an hour, that's a pound more than min wage and almost double for a 17 Yr old.

Hardly generic.

I earn £8.20 an hour.
I work shifts 7 days a week 365 days a year with no shift allowance or bonus gir Weejemds and bank holudays including christmas.
My shifts have little pattern. I can start work at 3am 2 days running and then the next 3 days start mid afternoon finishing midnight (ish).
I do enjoy my job but think it's shit money for the hours and responsibility.

It definitely isn't as simple as supply and demand.

Care workers aren't paid well and there aren't enough of them. I think it's more the case that there simply isn't the money there to pay more.

If you need an accountant or a lawyer or a financial advisor or even a doctor then you probably only need a few hours each month or even each year. So you can afford to pay well.

If you need a care worker you will probably need many hours per week and most people just don't have enough money to pay more for it. The same is true of childcare.

I agree Op. My DH gets a bloody good daily rate. Plus nearly £100 a day expenses for parking or transport ,food etc. He works in the arts which is always complaining about lack of funding and finance. They piss money up the wall.

I am incredulous as my brilliant job working with some of the most vulnerable children in society pays minimum wage with shit conditions and expectations; going above and beyond is normal. As is buying stuff you need out of your own money.

Come the revolution....

If companies could get away with paying a £5 per hour then they would, it’s disgusting! In the year 2000 I was 19 and on £6 per hour and 20 years later then the NMW is only £2.21 more! Too many greedy people.

Has anyone noticed that it’s generally female orientated work that’s low paid, for example, hairdressing, office work, teaching assistants, childcare, eldercare, shop work etc?

I wonder if the pay would be so low if these industries were male dominated? I think not.

Factory work, packing, distribution ect lots of males work in those at minimum wage.

Plenty of female bosses as well as male ones shit on their workers. It isn't a male or female thing

@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit

Interesting POV I hadn’t considered.

Also think often business to business services attract more than personal ones.

NO - Retailers refusing to pay decent wages are shooting themselves in the foot. They are losing far more money than the worker on minimum wage (or pennies more) who have to buy their own uniform, be on the floor ready to work 5 for minutes before they start getting paid and doing extra unpaid duties after the shop shuts and their pay stops.

I don’t necessarily agree with this. It won’t be true of all retailers but for many there absolutely is room for progression and you won’t be considered if you have a crap attitude.

My DH works in retail (head office not shop floor) and despite being far removed from CSA’s in his role he can still pick out the ones he notices go a good job on his visits and many have become store managers etc earning £50+ per year. His juniors will also be keeping an eye and promoting in the same way. They do not need a degree or any qualifications just a good attitude.

Now, as I said, I know this can’t be true for everyone. But if you’re capable but defeatist and just do the bare minimum it’s not going to happen to you.

I have worked in hairdressers/supermarkets/fast food places to name a few so I also speak from my own experience.

With childcare you can really see how the economics work.

Its basically constrained by the net income of the lowest earner in the family, usually the woman, as whatever the potential long term benefits most people can't or won't work for nothing for long.

Out of that net income therefore have to come the nursery fees. And as well as staff the nursery have rent, bills, equipment etc.

So woman A, pays a substantial proportion of her take home pay to the nursery for 50 hours care a week. There aren't enough women with enough money for the nursery to raise their fees further.

So a simplistic supply and demand model will never kick in. The nursery can be as desperate as it likes to recruit qualified and experienced childcare workers but it can't raise the salaries.

Woman A now needs a plumber to fix a dodgy tap in her home. He charges £80 for an hour's work. She is strapped for cash and annoyed it costs so much but it needs to be done and she needs one hour only so pays.

So less to do with relative skills and experience in a lot of cases than what can be afforded.

I've recently seen an advert for an accounts person, requiring qualifications, considerable experience, Sage knowledge etc etc etc.

Bookkeeping and accountancy is definitely in a race to the bottom at the moment due to low barriers to entry. Not a good profession anymore.

Woman A now needs a plumber to fix a dodgy tap in her home. He charges £80 for an hour's work. She is strapped for cash and annoyed it costs so much but it needs to be done and she needs one hour only so pays.

But if there were lots more plumbers, they'd be fighting/competing for work and that £80ph would fall. That's supply and demand. They can only charge high amounts because they're in short supply and know they have you over a barrel.

Usually on middle class MN, it's only when student teenager gets a part time job that posters start complaining about how low minimum wage is.

Other than that they couldn't care less.

^^^ So true.

Same for the hours and expectations.

NO - Retailers refusing to pay decent wages are shooting themselves in the foot.

If the firm isn't making enough profit and doesn't have a magic money tree, it can't pay higher wages over and above industry norm/competitors.

Plenty of staff do a good job despite being in nmw - they're not all lazily doing the least they can get away with.