AIBU or is this financial / emotional abuse?

[LizzyDarcy1]

Had an argument with DH, started about something silly and he got annoyed and chucked some things on the floor. I said he needed to tidy it up and it was getting ridiculous so I was going to bed. Went off upstairs.

Half an hour later he came up and said that he was going to take control of his own things and do what he likes from now on, including not putting any money in the joint account, but that our financial responsibilities will all be sorted. Absolutely refuses to tell me how they will be sorted and says he'll deal with it because he wants to.

For info, our household bills including food all come from our joint account, which we both put money into each month. I earn a bit more than him so I pay a bit more. His salary alone would not cover everything. We have two young DCs.

AIBU to think that this is abusive behaviour? I told him it was but he won't accept it. He says it's just him taking control of his life and doing what he wants. I pointed out that we have joint responsibilities and liabilities and I have a right to know what's going on. He doesn't seem to think this is an issue and said that maybe he'd tell me "if I start listening to him". I said that he has to consult me before he does anything like that and he said "make me", but how could I?

The original argument was not about finances (and as above, I pay for more than he does anyway, which I'm totally fine with at it's relevant to earnings).

Additionally, he does not care that he has left the lounge in a huge mess including broken china on the floor and has gone to bed. I've got up to sort it out because he refused to and I don't want our children coming down and hurting their feet in the morning :(

He's a bullying prick. He's escalating because you haven't immediately rolled over and apologised for daring to question or disobey him: you've probably been backing down for quite a while because it 'wasn't a very big deal' when he started acting up.
But it is a big deal. And he's going to get worse, because he believes that you are his servant/property and that it's entirely reasonable for him to scare and punish you in order to get his own way. He's already damaging the children's belongings to try to force you to shut up and obey him, and it really won't be very long before he's threatening or scaring or actually hurting the children to make you and them obey him.

We haven't spoken much in the last few days, but kept things pleasant enough in front of the children. I took them out most of the day on my own yesterday so we didn't have to spend too much time together.

He still hasn't shifted any of the finances about like he threatened when we argued, fortunately. We're in the middle of rejigging the finances anyway (new mortgage deal, changing suppliers, taking into account pay increases etc.) so I'm going to tell him that I'm only paying half once it's added up, given that he was who said he wanted to stop acting like a partnership in that respect. Then I can stash away a bit more each month and if there is no major improvement then I will leave him after Christmas (or rather, tell him to leave).

He's either being stupidly stubborn or fails to realise that he's done anything in the wrong, and I'm not going to live like that.

Thank you for all your advice and opinions x

Good plan OP.
There is definitely something going on, what is the question though!

Mind yourself 💐

He has been depressed in the past, though years ago now... I wonder if he's feeling down about things in general. We've had the odd argument in the past where I've thought that though and I've tried to ask gently if he thinks it might be depression again but he always says no. It just seems a bit like he was back then.

I'd feel horrible if he's depressed and I just leave him rather than support him but I don't know what else I could do about it if he wouldn't get help.

Depression - or any other form of mental illness - is never an excuse for bad behaviour. Just remember that.

He breaks your stuff. He threatens to withhold finances. That's inexcusable.

@LizzyDarcy1 I'm so glad you've got a plan and a possible exit strategy for after Christmas if things dont improve. And I agree with pp that depressed or not - it I'd never an excuse to break stuff or even threaten to or engage in manipulative behaviours like withholding money to make you get in line. I work with clinically depressed people and none act like this unless they were abusive before they were depressed. Dont accept abuse anymore. If he threatens to break your stuff (or even just mess things up) or withhold money - threaten to leave and see how he likes it.

OP you sound like you have your head screwed on straight. I think you are dead right to start saving. The breaking stuff, the financial withdrawal threat and the attempted walking off and not speaking on a day out all sound miserable and escalating. Is he causing trouble because he wants to end it? Is it possible he has found someone else?
Either way he sound like a massive pain in the arse.

As I said, this has come out of the blue. I have no suspicions that he has met another woman etc. If he wants to end it I would much rather he just did that than carry on like this! He usually takes his wedding ring off in a huff when we have a big argument, but he hasn't this time so I don't know that that says really (if anything).

I told him this morning that we'll add up all the bills and he can start paying exactly half of everything joint and family related. He said I was being childish and we can talk about it another time (both off to work) so I told him I'm protecting my personal finances after what he said the other day. We'll see how that conversation goes later!

You sound very sensible OP.

@theWAAA thank fuck for you.

Thank you, I'm trying to be sensible about it! I'm just glad that I'm not too financially dependent on him to make it difficult to split if we do.

I don't want to split up our little family but I know it might be best long term if he's going to carry on like this.

Violence is not just physical violence against another person - it includes throwing and breaking things and generally scaring the other person into thinking violence could be used.

If my DP ever used violence (including smashing an item), he’d be out for good. And we don’t even have DC! I deserve to live my life free from fear of what my partner might do if he gets annoyed by me.

OP don’t underestimate the affect this has on your children even if they’re already in bed. My parents used to argue after we’d gone to bed and I heard every word and it terrified me.

P.s. OP well done on getting your finances in order. You really do sound like your head is screwed on right. It might not hurt to see a solicitor just to see how to best prepare yourself for a potential future split.

Don't just leave, phone the Police next time he smashes things and have him removed.

This behaviour goes into lots of categories, abuse and control. He is using your fear of your children's wellbeing against you.

I feel it needs outside agencies to explain to both of you that your children are being brought up in a domestic violence household.

I’m concerned that he was nasty to your child and made her cry. Anyone that is deliberately nasty to a small child is scum.

Op, keep making your plans to leave and keep yourself and your children safe. If he’s capable of breaking stuff, he may start throwing things at you next.

Oh i couldn't bear to live like this. Tip toeing around to avoid upsetting this giant toddler. Hope you make some progress on this OP. Life's just too short for this kind of shit. You need someone on your team.

I feel like I need to be a bit careful what I say to him right now because if he does actually do something to mess up the finances that's not going to help me and the children in the long term :(

It is no way to live though, and I won't let it continue.

Yes that’s what they call
Walking on eggshells

OP, you can do this.
I think it's all becoming clearer to you.

Smashing things is definitely violence,Ake no mistake. And your children will be aware, despite what you hope.

Focus on your safety and future.
Also support IRL is always a great idea.

💐

we'll add up all the bills and he can start paying exactly half of everything joint and family related. He said I was being childish

What sort of cack handed thinking is it to accuse you of being "childish" because you expect your partner and father of your kids to cover half the expenses for your household. I think he is beginning to realise that he shot himself in the foot with his antics and that the threats will not work on you. Please be careful OP, I hope you have support IRL and be extra cautious of how he behaves and protect yourself financially.

As the higher earner, I don't usually expect him to pay half as it would hardly be fair for my husband to be worse off than me each month when we're a partnership.

I only said that because of his recent financial threats. I really don't think it was childish to say that in the circumstances either!

I do have support IRL, thanks. I'm going to save what I can for now... if he refuses to pay half of everything for next month and we haven't sorted this out then things might have to happen sooner.

Now that a few days have passed since the initial argument, can you discuss things calmly with him? Without resorting to threatening him with having less disposable income?
I wonder what triggered his knee jerk reaction of wanting to take control of his finances in this way?
It's such an odd thing for him to take a stand over, considering his weaker financial position.
Maybe if he wants to feel responsible for paying for some bills in their entirety, without going through the joint account, you could (both) sit down and list all the outgoings and divide them up fairly (at this point, still allowing for you to pay a greater percentage), then he gets to feel 'responsible' for paying 'his' bills, whether that's the mortgage, or the electricity bill and you know what he's responsible for, so you don't feel like you've been left in the dark.
Personally, i think it sounds like over complicating things, but sometimes, you have to compromise to allow for people's feelings.
Without knowing what's driving this desire of his, it's difficult to know how to move forward, but taking an entrenched position and leaving him worse off is probably not going to help the relationship.

I'm not "threatening him with having less disposable income". He said that he was going to stop putting money in the joint account and wouldn't explain how he expected the bills to be paid. He can hardly expect me to want to continue to share finances as we have been after that. I need to protect myself for if we split up.

I have tried talking to him but he just says I clearly don't listen to him and won't discuss things properly. At this point I've had enough; whatever he's upset about does not excuse his behaviour. He won't accept that (or won't admit it at least) and I'm not willing to let him get away with it or it will just happen again. I feel that if he wants to mend the relationship then he needs to talk properly and admit his actions and threats were not on.

I think when we argued he might have been a bit annoyed from earlier in the day when I told him about a one off bill that needed paying and asked him to pay it, as I'd recently covered some other costs of similar value, and that's why he brought up money. He said he'd budgeted for the month and why was I only telling him about it now (although it was something he was definitely aware of, but maybe assumed I would cover).

OP,

You are being very wise. He's violent in the home and he's threatening you financially.

I think you are very wise to take it seriously.

Why would anyone put up with either of those things.

You are absolutely right to protect yourself.👍💐