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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the back to 60 campaign is grabby

999 replies

Neaoll · 03/10/2019 07:36

It's been known about for a long time that state pension ages would be equalised.

State pension is just unsustainable, it was never supposed to be something people claim for 20-30 years. Was for people that had a hard time so they didn't starve to death in their last few years. Now it's a top-up to the richest part of society. It should have been linked with life expectancy a long time ago.

I'm in my 40s and dont expect to ever get a state pension. I've been contributing to my private pension ever since I worked to support myself.

OP posts:
echt · 03/10/2019 09:53

No ones said they've had a perfect career and opportunities. But they've had many decades to make up for it and legislation has existed for most of their lives to make things equal

So no problem then.

mrsmuddlepies · 03/10/2019 09:54

Thank you @SerenDIppitty,
Why has no one come back about the Employment Protection Act of 1975. So much hearsay on this thread, rather than acknowledging UK law.
Why should the government want to pay a state pension in the hope that the recipient lives for 30 years?
The money has to come from somewhere and why should struggling young families be supporting women who don't much fancy working.

AudacityOfHope · 03/10/2019 09:56

Brilliant answer. A really detailed and well thought-out response.

echt · 03/10/2019 09:56

It's always said on MN people below 40 are fine with no state pension as they've got time to plan for it

Could you cite this? I've never seen it. In other media yes, but not on MN.

Clue: whenever someone says always, it's because they can't cite cases.

familycourtq · 03/10/2019 09:57

Compared to millennials waspi people have been far more fortunate.

What a ridiculous, and frankly nasty and ignorant, statement.

mrsmuddlepies · 03/10/2019 09:57

And you are not addressing the unsubstantiated claims you make @AudacityOfHope .
It upsets me to see older women thinking they have more rights than anyone else on the planet.
Obviously ill health notwithstanding, if you are capable of earning you should work and not rely on the young generation to support you.
Your views support ageism and sexism in society.

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/10/2019 09:58

You haven’t read what people are saying. Or if you have, you’re choosing to disbelieve. You sound very smug op. Your privilege is shining through. I thought I’d work, be well, retire at 60. It’s now 67 for me. And I won’t be getting a pension anyway. Disabled, chronically ill and therefore not paying in due to poor health and I’m also not taking benefits either in case you threw that one at me.

MarianaMoatedGrange · 03/10/2019 09:58

There was plenty of notice of the original change but for a sub group, born around 1954 , there was a sudden second change

Yes. These women are the hardest hit.

AudacityOfHope · 03/10/2019 09:59

What claims? I haven't claimed anything. I haven't said what I think about pension ages or t he disparity between men and women. Confused

All I've done is ask questions and share my own experiences.

mrsmuddlepies · 03/10/2019 10:02

We have established women in the UK had protected employment rights since 1975 and yet some women chose not to return to work after having children and now expect the state to support them.
Believe me, sixty is not old, and unless you suffer from ill health, you would probably be better off working.

mrsmuddlepies · 03/10/2019 10:04

So Audacity of Hope, you do agree that the retirement age for men and women should be the same and that women should not be allowed to retire earlier simply because they are women?

MarianaMoatedGrange · 03/10/2019 10:05

My hairdresser was born the year before me and got her state pension at 63! How is that fair?

Exactly! a totally ill thought out and unfair system.

mrsmuddlepies · 03/10/2019 10:06

I know, I shared my experiences but in the end, your experience or somebody's mother's experience is hearsay and ultimately you have to refer to the legal situation in the UK in the seventies and eighties. To gain a full picture of employment rights.

C8H10N4O2 · 03/10/2019 10:08

We have established women in the UK had protected employment rights since 1975

Again you are one of the relatively privileged women in this group who was allowed into a pension scheme as a part timer and are graduate professional in a public sector scheme.

The idea that since 1975 women in general have had equal rights in practice is just not borne out by decades of ONS statistics on unequal pay, particularly in the part time, small company roles where women predominate. Even in the graduate professions where salaries are more likely to be equal at the outset women rapidly fall behind once they start having children.

ArcheryAnnie · 03/10/2019 10:08

People in manual roles will just have to have a second career.

I haven't read the whole thread because my mind stuttered to a halt at this stupidity on the first page.

echt · 03/10/2019 10:08

It upsets me to see older women thinking they have more rights than anyone else on the planet

It upsets me when you claim to know what others think, as well as giving it planet-wide status. Hmm

AudacityOfHope · 03/10/2019 10:09

Yes, I do.

But I also think the government has relied on what they assumed would be a silent majority, trades majorly on women's unpaid labour, and spectacularly shat on the women born in 1954 like my mum.

They're different issues. 🤷🏻‍♀️

familycourtq · 03/10/2019 10:10

State pension is just unsustainable,
Sure it is, just like tax cuts for wealthy people are essential.

MarianaMoatedGrange · 03/10/2019 10:11

spectacularly shat on the women born in 1954 like my mum

And they thought we'd be quiet, didn't they?

mrsmuddlepies · 03/10/2019 10:13

Just announced,women have lost the case in the High Court.

Blondieg · 03/10/2019 10:14

I'm in my mid forties and remember when in college the pension age change was being discussed then. I thought back then and still do now that it should have been raised to 70.

mrsmuddlepies · 03/10/2019 10:14

And I did not have a cushy part time job. I worked full time until 65 when I went part time.

StarryNightWithGrazingDeer · 03/10/2019 10:15

I don’t wholeheartedly agree that everyone in previous generations had a much easier deal than millennials.

In some parts of the country, the 80s were horrendous. It was extremely difficult to find or keep work. So women (and men) in those areas would have had very little spare money to build up savings or capital.

Similarly the women affected by the shift in pension age would be of an age group that spent most of their working lives affected by the wage gap between male and female earnings, so again, less opportunity to build up capital. It’s unjust to be treated differently in practice but be expected to achieve the same outcome. There are people who are only now finally getting equal pay for equal work after years of battling through the courts under equality legislation (for example women employed in care, catering and cleaning roles by Glasgow City Council). Not to mention the gap still exists for women working today in many areas and sectors, it’s just more difficult to bring an individual case than a class action backed by a union or two.

The women in this age group would also potentially been affected by having difficulty getting a mortgage on their own when they were younger. That started to shift in the 60s and 70s, but will have persisted a good bit longer in attitudes and in pockets. In these days of online credit checks we forget how much in the 80s and even 90s mortgage decisions often rested on the opinions of a local bank manager and how much discretion they had to say yes or no. When my mum and dad split up in the early 80s, my mum specifically chose a bank (and branch) to move on the basis that a particular bank manager had a reputation for being fair with single women, in contrast to basically every other bank manager in the city. There won’t have been that option in a lot of places, or some women wouldn’t have been socially connected enough to have heard about that type of person on the grapevine.

And again, we really underestimate how much has changed. The women in this age group had far fewer opportunities to get into education or well paid work than women 20 years younger did, and faced even more deeply entrenched sexism and discrimination for much of their lives. It’s still pretty bad now, but it used to be a lot worse.

I also agree with pp that the pensionable age should be tied to when you started working enough to pay full NI. Some people started full-time work at 15 or 16, so face a much longer working life than people who didn’t start working til 21 or 22. I’d include people who worked 20 or 30 hours a week whilst studying (either straight from school or at some later point) because they had family financial responsibilities. So the retirement age could be “age started work + 45 years” rather than a set age for all. The amount is then influenced by how many years people have paid NI.

Even though life expectancy has increased, there are a lot of geographical areas where it is still late 60s or early 70s. These areas correspond with low incomes, early start to working life etc. And people who work in manual occupations have a lower life expectancy too. People in those groups now face literally working til they drop, no retirement at all. And the job market for older people is pretty harsh.

nettie434 · 03/10/2019 10:16

I do agree with you Neoall that the change in pensions has really hit younger peopke unfairly. However, it's not so much the state pension but the chance to save for good occupational pensions.

As far as WASPI women are concerned, they do have a case. There were no internet sites highlighting the changes then and I think many women genuinely did not realise it would affect them. Many are also of an age when pensions were not included in the assets on divorce. As they usually had worse pensions than their exes, they lost out.

I actually think politicians have a vested interest in inter generational disputes over pensions. It would suit them to reduce state pensions to being means tested and minimal.

Neaoll · 03/10/2019 10:16

The right decision from the high court.

Would have ment even more debt for future generations to pay for, most of whom could only ever dream of retirement.

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