To think the back to 60 campaign is grabby

[Neaoll]

It's been known about for a long time that state pension ages would be equalised.

State pension is just unsustainable, it was never supposed to be something people claim for 20-30 years. Was for people that had a hard time so they didn't starve to death in their last few years. Now it's a top-up to the richest part of society. It should have been linked with life expectancy a long time ago.

I'm in my 40s and dont expect to ever get a state pension. I've been contributing to my private pension ever since I worked to support myself.

*No. There are millions of people who are not carers who have not got an occupational pension including the vast majority of young people now working. What about them? Most people who are carers have not been in that position for all their working lives.

I take issue too with the idea they have saved the NHS billions. The opposite is more the truth that by not working and paying taxes they are taking out having not paid in*

Well its taken until the final stretch but it looks like certain posters have finally abandoned the pretence that this thread is anything other than thinly veiled benefit bashing. And not very thinly veiled at that. Misogyny and classism in a feminist cloak.

@nonnymum Your school sounds a bit like mine though I rebelled and was a trail blazer- I chose to do metalwork as an option and did typing as an 'extra' in my lunch hour when they put on an extra class.

However, although there is some truth in what you describe a lot does come down to personal ambition. One of my peers 'did' domestic science up to A level then a degree in food science and has a great job with food manufacturers. It didn't always equate to having the old man's dinner on the table and nothing else.

There was also plenty of opportunity for anyone who was a mature student (over 25) with free degree course,s grants and so on. I know women who did this. Education didn't have to stop at 16 or 18.

And, there is a flaw in your argument; if most of these waspi women married, stayed at home or took menial jobs, most of them are now well provided for by the DHs occupational pensions. There will be some who are widowed (they usually get 50% of the pension) or divorced (and they ought to have had a career to fall back on rather than rely on a man.)

You can't make a law for the benefit of people who didn't take the chances they had , when other people of the same cohort made different choices- same opportunities- and find themselves better off at 60+. You and other posters are talking as if women were barred form the workplace yet we are talking about the mid 1970s onwards not my parents' generation. we were the women burning our bras and looking for equality. A lot of us got it - it depended on your choices and often capacity for hard work and years of study.

You can make up a similar amount to state pension by working just a couple of days per week in a minimum wage job. It's not as if those who are "suffering" have to work full time in a high pressure/intensive job

Plenty of minimum wage jobs are intensive and stressful. I know because ive done them Care work Retail work and ive had to stay late and not be paid. Was made to cancel a medical appointment when i had an abcsess. My ex worked a miniumum wage job as a delivery driver. His boss was always on at him because of him getting stuck in traffic between deliveries and ringing him while he was driving.

To some being equal seems to mean treating other women in the same way men treat them.

@HelenaDove Discussing small incidents in your own work or that of your ex is hardly adding weight to the discussion.

This is a useful bit of information posted earlier

I just checked annuity rates (can’t get off to sleep so trying anything): a pot of £100k would buy a 55 year old £3,800 a year. If you want that index linked it’s £2.200 a year

That perfectly illustrates why the short notice is a problem. The gap created by changing the pension age has to be plugged by either working if possible and jobs available or by having had the time and spare money to save for a private pension. All things that need to be planned for well ahead.

It is not the same as the change in tuition fees as advance notice there would have made little difference.

No, it perfectly illustrates why somebody paying part time NI contributions does not ‘deserve’ the state pension at 60 because the contributions don’t touch the sides. You’d need to have saved the best part of £400k to get £8k, index linked, each year until you die. The poster in question was quite happy for other people to meet that £400k cost for her to retire early, when they themselves couldn’t do the same. She thought that she had earned it with her NI contributions over her life. Christ.

It also illustrates that public sector pension schemes are terrific value, and that the contributions the member makes don’t come close to what it will cost the taxpayer.

The fact is that many minimum wage jobs are incredibly stressful.

Ive worked in care homes Ive worked in retail. DM did 50 years of factory work.

Of course it adds weight to the discussion.

We have got people on this thread saying that mimimum wage jobs arent stressful that carers are a drain on the taxpayer.

This thread is nothing to do with feminism or equality. And has been a benefit bashing thread from day one.

It also illustrates that public sector pension schemes are terrific value, and that the contributions the member makes don’t come close to what it will cost the taxpayer.

Absolutely. And the poster earlier today who disappeared as she couldn't stand the heat didn't seem to get this. She has managed to retire at 57 after only 20 years of p/t work but of course she'd like that income topping up at 60 with her SP.

Public sector workers bang on about poor pay but they have bloody good pensions and have (until very very recently) had the option of early retirement at 55 or 60 compared to people in the private sector.

So how is a care worker suppossed to save enough for a pension while working in a care home caring for the elderly relatives of high earners.

You seem to have a very low threshold where stress is concerned! The fact is that someone has to do these min wage jobs. If that's all they can do if they are not academic, what are you suggesting?
I don't get your point at all.

If someone is only capable of working in a shop or a factory, then they take the wage payable for that. End of.

How this has any bearing on the age of the SP I don't know.

I've worked in retail for years as a student and it wasn't remotely stressful.

So how is a care worker suppossed to save enough for a pension while working in a care home caring for the elderly relatives of high earners

why do you think that the parents of people in care homes have children who are high earners? what nonsense.

You are coming over as having a huge fat chip on your shoulder and ranting about things that make no sense.

That isn't how state pension works though, payments are made in today as national insurance and paid out today to pensioners.

A job which isn’t stressful to a student in their late teens/early 20s is a totally different ball game when you’re over 60.

This is one of the most misogynistic threads I’ve ever seen here. Well done, ladies.

You are coming over as having a huge fat chip on your shoulder and ranting about things that make no sense

She isnt

I always find helenas posts very informative

@AlsoHuman Its incredibly gaslighty as well. I asked about how care workers are supposed to save for a pension because the thread is about pensions. How is that not anything to do with it.

I am one of those affected and it IS unfair. Yes it had to change but should have been done much more gradually. Women in this age group were less likely to be promoted, always paid less, in addition to childrearing, with no free childcare as there is now. Allowances should have been made for these things.

@Acciocats ??

My comment has absolutely nothing to do with men vs women and whole lot to do with the flippant way it was suggested that people should just "change career"

Yeah, because it's that easy to do!

@Laterthanyouthink I’m not getting your point. Most posters on the thread know that the state pension is unfunded, ie paid for by working people.

Are you arguing that everybody should get what they can from the system?

Do you think that @Ilovemypantry should be given her pension at 60, despite having mostly worked part time and having retired early on our dollar, because the working people can just pay for it?

Can you see how this isn’t going to work if everybody does it?

I’m a net contributor. I don’t mind that, it’s what comes with being lucky and having had a good education and a good career. Lots of us have to do that to look after the people who really need help. Not women who fancy knocking off at 60 or 62 or whatever because they have had enough of working and can’t see why others shouldn’t fund their leisure.

Is it misogynistic to tell other women that they will jolly well have to work a bit longer, like the rest of us? That is stretching the definition quite far, I think.

I'm not sure what your point is @HelenaDove? Care workers are not a special group! They save the same as anyone else ( or not.) People start saving for a pension ( a pension plan) in their 20s if they want a pension at 60. If you mean how to care workers save so they have savings to live on while they wait for a SP , then the answer is the same as anyone else.

Look, I can't think of any other way to say this, but it is a fact of life that some people are better educated and earn more and some people can only do min wage jobs.

What exactly is your point?

We have already gone over this numerous times in this thread. If you are disabled, you can get benefits if you cannot work.

If you are healthy then you have to expect to work till the age of the SP.

It's not my fault or any one else's if you or your family or your ex are only able to earn the min wage. Maybe you didn't study, maybe you didn't make the most of education, who knows.

Why do you think you are a special case?

This talk of 'part time' NI contributions is meaningless, as that is not the way NI contributions work.

As long as you have made the right contributions for your earnings for sufficient weeks in a year, it becomes a qualifying year. It doesn't matter whether you are contributing as a high earner, a self employed person, as a part-time worker or as a SAHM getting child benefit.

Ultimately the state pension is a benefit and should be regarded as such, because we have agreed as a society that we didn't like the alternatives that existed before the state pension was put in place. It is more or less a flat rate because, ultimately, we all need to eat and somewhere to lay our heads when we get old. Human compassion should mean that everyone gets some support from society, even if some have contributed more than others.

Criticising someone for making 'part time contributions' when that is the system that exists is just unfair. The government is not in the business of redesigning the whole system and I suspect it is unlikely to do so in the near future.

As I said upthread, I do have some sympathy for the WASPI women. It is horrible to feel the rug pulled out from in under you. However, they will still get something even if it is a bit later than they hoped.

Spare a thought for people who have no recourse to public funds. They really need our help.

I actually hope that some child minders and care workers actually follow that advice and leave some of their jobs for caring for the families of the nastier ones on this thread with little or no notice for
better paid positions. Im sure Jingling et al would be happy for them.

Jingling i hope your attitude towards any family carers that do work for or with you is better than youve shown on here. What with the Equality Act and all.

Care workers cant afford to save thousands. Perhaps the fees should go up. You sound nastier and nastier the more you post

My ex manager colleugue who now works at Tesco who i mentioned upthread. I was working for her back in 2005 She refused me time off for a care emergency re. DH She thought he didnt count cos he wasnt a child.

She tried the same thing last year POST Equality Act. The person she did it to asserted their rights. Company shit themselves Got rid of her Now she works in Tesco . Not a manager any more.

You've lost me now @Helenadove. Sorry but no idea what you are on about. I have not said anything critical about care workers other than they earn the min wage. You though really need to get rid of that chip you have which makes you assume some kind of victim mentality.

And don't assume people in care or who have carers at home have children paying for that. Ridiculous. Most have to sell their homes to fund care homes, or pay for care out of their savings.