to think that predicted grades for UCAS should represent the best your DC could do, not something a bit crappy

[MargoLovebutter]

I really don't know if I'm being AIBU, but second DC is having trouble with her school being really pessimistic about her predicted grades.

The school has signed up to some scheme whereby they get kudos for estimating grades achieved accurately and it seems to me they are more interested in this than my DC getting into a good uni.

DD did well in her GCSEs (having done bugger all revision), she's reasonably bright if a bit lazy but is now properly motivated to get into uni. The school seem really reluctant to give her predictions that seem perfectly achievable to me and I am the antithesis of a pushy mum!!!!!

I had no such problems with DC1, so I'm wondering if this is a new thing or what the fuck is going on?

surely predictions are all about dwelling on the past? Teachers predict based on past performance do they not? But you have said you are going to talk to HoY, so your DD can get that sorted! She needs to do it quickly!

Margo it does not sound like she is lazy if she has done all those things.
If she really wants to go to university she needs to knuckle down and work fo it!

Op you know your daughter. I would ask for a meeting with her form teacher and her and go through it. It might be the motivation she needs. For what it's worth though wasn't predicted high enough grades to read law at my first choice uni. I wrote to the uni before exams and said I thought my school had under predicted my grades and could they reconsider my application. They then made me an offer. Unfortunately I missed the grade as my teachers thought I would so ended up at my insurance choice anyhow!!

Would she consider a gap year? A bit of steady income then travelling for six months was great, I had exceeded expectations in my A-levels, I got unconditional offers, chose the one I wanted and had the first pick of accommodation. I also learnt in my A levels the importance of steady work and revision as if I had worked more steadily I would have got even higher grades.

She has her whole life to settle down and go to University, get a job, etc. She sounds like the sort of student who would really benefit from a gap year and enjoy it. If she already works maybe she could work full time from say July until December, maybe even get another job, build up some savings and then travel and work somewhere for 6 months. That experience increased my motivation when I went to university too and being a tiny bit older gave me a slightly more mature outlook on life.

She will need though to get on top of working steadily and revising. We all have our limits and far better she establishes good working patterns now, as there will come a point where she can't wing it any more, far better that happens when you are there to support her. The further you go in academic studies the more it is about time and effort rather than just sheer brilliance.

I said I was making an appointment to see the head of sixth form at 09.59!!!!!

and I first posted at 09:53:33

I still don't need to tell you what DD is doing to have the conversation with the head of sixth form.

For the last time, I know you don't need to tell me. But YOU need to tell/advise your daughter what she is doing to currently doing to show that she is worthy of a higher predicted grade. I am trying to help you, for goodness sake, with things you could be asking your DD or seeing if she is already doing them! Having had many many similar conversations with parents and students over predicted grades, I am merely giving you helpful advice that might make that meeting go a little better.
After all, you did moan at CuriousaboutSamphire that I've already said I'm going to talk to the head of sixth form but I wanted some input here to see if I was missing something
Well, I'm giving you input you can take with you. Take it or don't take it, I don't care. What I do care is that you keep (maybe on purpose) repeatedly misunderstanding what I am saying!

KittyVonCatsington appreciate the points you are making and it will be helpful for my discussions with the head of year.

I don't think I've moaned anywhere, merely asked questions and given answers. I'm not sure how that constitutes moaning.

How much more independent would you like her to be?

I wrote in a previous post about her being academically independent on purpose, as I know you have said she does plenty of things on her own but you've missed that too. Academic independence (handing in top grade homework, revising effectively, doing extra reading/analysis/research) is what is specifically being referred to here. Exactly what is needed at degree level too. Going on holiday/DofE/work experience and part time work are usually more of the activities students at that age prefer spending time doing. Doing the 'boring stuff' that I have listed, not so much! (And this is not a criticism of your DD, I don't know her, just want is common and often a reason for predicted grades coming as a bit of a shock).
You sound like a great mum and have obviously gone through this with your eldest but the new Linear exams have changed everything somewhat and a different approach may be needed here.

Margo I agree with Kitty. The head of sixth form has really heard it all before. Talking about GCSE predictions will get you nowhere as grade predictions at GCSE are fairly meaningless compared to A-level predictions especially given the recent GCSE reforms meaning teachers were basically stabbing in the dark. Personally I tend to be cautious with GCSE predictions to avoid kids being complacent. Don’t mention GCSE predicted grades.

What counts here is your DD’s AS performance (where she performed as expected) and your assertion that she will work harder this year. They all say that.

How will you make your DD’s case different to all the others? She has to show how she is already working harder than last year. A file of evidence of independent work going over Y12 topics that she struggled with and reports from her teachers of improved standards would be a good start.

really? How should I prove her independence to you? She has had two holiday jobs, she's done volunteering in a charity shop, she's gone on holiday with her friends, she's gone to festivals, she's done her DofE expeditions, she organised her own work experience. How much more independent would you like her to be?

I think that PPs meant she doesn't seem to have the ability to study independently based on this:
Her homework isn't the best and her revision is a struggle

University is basically self directed learning, and it's easy enough for the most regimented student to lose concentration. Since you said she was worried about accommodation she is moving away from home, it will be an entirely new way for her to live and work. To say she isn't cut out for university as a PP did is unfair, there are always ways to adapt your studying / revision / working technique to succeed. However, she will need to start looking at this now, and put things into practice. Does she have a team at 6th form that assist with this? At university there would be a welfare / disability team she can speak to get assistance with ADHD and revision etc.

On a side note; I wouldn't let her worry too much about accommodation if she does have to go through clearing too, there will be thousands of students in her situation and student accommodation is plentiful.

noblegiraffe thank you. I shall refrain from mentioning GCSEs.

Point taken about independent learning KittyVonCatsington. For the subject she wants to read at uni, I know she is already doing that but I'll ask her if she doing it for the other two subjects as well.

Of course you can fluke gcses. I didn't study for any of mine (apart from maths which I studied the day of the exam) and I passed them all with high grades (a or b). Same as your daughter, smart and can retain information well.

There is definitely a significant group of students every year that fit this description. I taught for almost 2 decades, so saw seen thousands of kids through their GCSEs. There’s a group of kids every year, quite bright, quite lazy. Sailed through KS3 and 4 with very limited effort. A levels come as a very nasty shock to these kids, because A levels require some degree of self study and problem solving. Some kids adapt to it, some don’t. Some still think they can do what they’ve always done; put minimal effort in all year, revise a bit the day before the exam and ace it. It doesn’t work like that for A Levels, though.

I'm sure she'll be fine. Fwiw dd was only predicted a B in her main subject but still got offers from unis that wanted an A in it . She got a B and got into insurance, if ahe had got an A she would have got into first choice. But they made her a higher offer than predicted is my point.

I'm genuinely surprised that there is a view you can fluke / bluff 11 GCSEs at good grades. I had no idea this was a thing at all, but judging from the number of comments, it would seem it is.

I did go to uni myself, admittedly when dinosaurs roamed the earth, but I have some recollection of how it all worked. Waiting to be told to stop dwelling on the past and how it is completely & fundamentally changed in the last 25 years!

At GCSE a lot of time is dedicated in class to revising. In my subject we basically finish teaching around Feb then spend the rest of the time going over weak areas from the mocks, past paper practice and so on. Homework is very revision-focused.

Kids who swing into A-levels saying ‘I got a 7 in maths and did no revision’ are totally kidding themselves. They did loads of revision, they just didn’t do it at home.

At A-level, the syllabus is totally packed. We are teaching new content right up to the wire. We have very little time in lessons to be doing past papers or going over stuff learned months ago. Kids who said they did no revision for their GCSEs are suddenly going to find out that all those past papers they did in class actually contributed to their good GCSE grades. It wasn’t a fluke, it was planned that way for them. If they want to do well at A-level, all that work they did in class for their GCSEs now needs to be done at home. Some find that very difficult to get their heads around.

I don't think I've moaned anywhere,

But I haven't said that you have?

I wish you all the best at that meeting. I know that you just want the best outcome possible for your daughter.

Sigh - yes you did.

After all, you did moan at CuriousaboutSamphire that I've already said I'm going to talk to the head of sixth form but I wanted some input here to see if I was missing something
Well, I'm giving you input you can take with you. Take it or don't take it, I don't care. What I do care is that you keep (maybe on purpose) repeatedly misunderstanding what I am saying!

Good post noble and you've remided me to remind dd2 of this!!

That's interesting Noble. In DDs school they seemed to find the content of the new GCSEs very difficult to get finished. In some of the subjects like History and Biology, DD was still learning new content after the Easter break and most of them, didn't get finished until well after February half-term. I was surprised as the school told us that they'd be finished by the beginning of February but that didn't happen at all. She kept saying to me that she didn't know how they were supposed to revise and learn new content at the same time. She said the same about the AS levels.

So that's a really good point, I will be asking when they expect to finish the A level syllabus.

Sigh - yes you did.
What is telling CuriousaboutSamphire that I've already said I'm going to talk to the head of sixth form but I wanted some input here to see if I was missing something

Apologies, I thought you meant moaning as a parent or student to the HoY about predicted grades. Not nice to be misunderstood is it?!

However, I don't think you have just been asking questions and wanting answers, in the way you have sometimes addressed me or CuriousSamphire, either.

Anyway, sounds like everything is a bit more positive now, hopefully!

You've said she performed better in her GCSEs than her year 11 mocks. How did she do in her ASs compared to her GCSEs? Getting Cs in GCSE mocks, then Bs in the actual exams is one thing. But then to get Bs at AS and expect As in AL is pretty unrealistic - most kids do either the same or worse at AL than at AS, particularly as they are no longer linked.

Plus if you think her ASs weren't a reflection of her potential A Level grades you need to ask her what the hell she was playing not working her ass off for the AS exams. She'll be declaring these on her UCAS form.

titchy all the advice I am getting is that GCSEs are totally irrelevant! Apparently, they are the past and mean nothing, particularly as she did well in them by fluke and bluff!

I've already asked her why she didn't work her arse off for the AS levels. You can imagine the response I got wasn't very edifying.

KittyVonCatsington nothing about the situation with DD has changed since I first posted, so I can't say anything is more positive yet. I do however, have some input from this thread, which may or may not be helpful when I meet with the head of sixth form.

I’m not sure it’s possible to do no revision for GCSEs and swan out with ten grade “9s” to be honest. “7s”yes, but not a clean sweep of the very top grades. If those pupils say they did no work, they are probably lying! Only about 800 pupils in the country got nine or more “9” grades this year - is that right?

I doubt its particularly possible to do literally no revision and get all 7s either. As noble points out, they do a lot of revision for gcses in class.

I don’t think GCSEs are irrelevant either OP. Just yesterday, I was looking at certain courses on the LSE website under “selection criteria” and it clearly says they are looking for all top grades (8&9) at GCSE.

That depends on the course tides. I was looking at one at LSE the other day that said As and A*s (7s 8s 9s) in the majority of gcses with minimum 6 in maths and English